View Active Topics          Latest 100 Topics          View Your Posts          Switch to Mobile

Finely tuned universe - Evidence of a Creator?

Discussions Religion and Theology, Scriptures, Bible Debate, etc.

Finely tuned universe - Evidence of a Creator?

Postby Scepcop » 25 Dec 2009, 11:21



"If the rate of expansion one second after the big bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million, the universe would have recollapsed before it ever reached its present size."

Stephen Hawking, A Brief History Of Time, Bantam Press, London: 1988, p. 121-125

***********
And this was JUST the beginning.
***********

Please see the details now.

http://www.creationofuniverse.com
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
User avatar
Scepcop
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: 16 May 2009, 07:29






Re: Finely tuned universe? Evidence of a Creator?

Postby Nostradamus » 30 Dec 2009, 13:11

I looked through this first video and there were lots of claims about the need to have some of these values exactly as they are. I have read in the past that some values had to be exact such as the charge of a proton has to exactly match the charge of the electron (in magnitude).

Are there any links to places that state why other constants need to be as they are? I can't see why there can't be quite a bit of variation in the gravitational constant since that force is separate from the other 3 and rather weak.
Scimitars were not available - beware January 19, 2038 is upon us.
User avatar
Nostradamus
 
Posts: 1761
Joined: 08 Aug 2009, 14:08

Re: Finely tuned universe? Evidence of a Creator?

Postby Hellboy » 03 Jan 2010, 06:51

Nostradamus wrote:
I can't see why there can't be quite a bit of variation in the gravitational constant since that force is separate from the other 3 and rather weak.


Ummmm, not according to new versions of string/m - theory. Actually the force of gravity was once part of the super force under the conditions described by the aforementioned theories. Admittedly there have been recorded anomalies with regard to the gravitational constant, however these are only recorded anomalies and have not been demonstrated to such an extent that old Newtonian physics and indeed Einstein’s Relativity could be overthrown by such minor discrepancies. Indeed theses discrepancies may be due to observational errors or extraneous influences not accounted for. Therefore any alleged observed variation maybe due to more prosaic influences or explanations. Albeit there are extreme situations where the equations of relativity break down completely - i.e. singularities such as black holes and the beginning of the universe.

Hence that is why I found your comments a tad strange or sweeping without any direct reference or explanation. To reiterate, gravity is not a separate force, it only appears that way because the hypothetical graviton can inhabit and migrate to different slices or branes of physical reality... well some of the math allegedly suggests it anyway. :?

When dealing with the frontiers of knowledge especially regarding high end physics, one must be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water. The gravitational constant has served engineers, physicists and inventors well with tangible and real results. In extreme circumstances there may indeed be variations to the gravitational constant; however any variation under average circumstances would be so small that; for everyday living such discrepancies become redundant as a functional working model.


However the questions that such anomalies throw are well worth investigating. :D
Hellboy
 
Posts: 40
Joined: 09 Aug 2009, 05:37

Re: Finely tuned universe? Evidence of a Creator?

Postby Yrreg » 11 Oct 2010, 06:22

I like to maintain that considering the to humans observable universe, on the basis of our intelligent thinking, there is a Creator Who is understood in Christianity as the necessary being that is the author of everything that has a beginning.

Atheist scientists go deep into matter and into space to prove that such a creator is not necessary, and I seem to see that they explain everything as the result of chance.

That is to my observation not any kind of intelligent thinking.

No need to go into the deepest depths of matter and into the farthest reaches of space, and also to bring up all kinds of forces whatever, just consider the nose in our face as also in the face of atheists, if everything is due to chance, how come the nose is still in their face and it is serving every human for breathing comfortably.


What does Scepcop say about that?

I read somewhere here that he deconverted from his Christian faith, which I think is a very unintelligent behavior.

I have not read his reasons for deconverting, but I guess it is all about the incompatibility among the attributes of God taught in the Christian faith, like His mercy and His justice, His love and His inaction in the face of so much ills in the world of humans as of nature, and yes of course, His love and His maintenance of hell.

But I want him to think intelligently, with God as the necessary being creator of everything that has a beginning, can he deny the existence of such a God and the existence and function of the nose in his face?





Yrreg
Yrreg
 
Posts: 6
Joined: 10 Oct 2010, 14:06

God - The evidence (without religion)

Postby Scepcop » 12 Oct 2010, 00:03

Afterlife investigator attorney Victor Zammit talks about the empirical evidence for the existence of God.

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
User avatar
Scepcop
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: 16 May 2009, 07:29

Re: Finely tuned universe - Evidence of a Creator?

Postby Paradox » 03 Jan 2011, 11:26

According to Roger Penrose the chances of the 'big bang' forming the right conditions for not just life but even matter to form/evolve is a 1 followed by 123 zeros. The total amount of atoms estimated to exist in the entire universe is close to 10 to the 80th power. I guess this is why the 'many worlds theory' was invented. An infinite amount of universes that keep splitting to form new universes. This fine tuning of the universe to the four forces of nature: strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force, electromagnetic force and gravity resorts to the Anthropic Principle. The many worlds theory is used to decribe how one universe where just the right conditions to fine tune the four forces of nature to sustain matter and create the conditions for life to form/evolve since an infinite amount of universes were said to be created to match up against the low odds of mathematical probabilty of all of this required 'fine tuning' to occur by random chance. Dr. Kaku and David Deutsch have written their own books about this 'Multiverse Theory'. I don't buy none of this infinite universe stuff. I think Occam's Razor sides with an intelligent consciousness pre-existing the 'big bang' and creating the required 'fine tuning' of the four forces of nature. There is much more evidence out there that supports the existence of just a few interpenetrating universes of spirit (considering the overwhelming evidence of so much paranormal phenomena and spirit communications) over these infinite universes (these universes can never communicate with each other) put up by the diehard physicalists. That is my own take on this.
Truth is stranger than fiction.
User avatar
Paradox
 
Posts: 66
Joined: 29 Nov 2010, 05:03
Location: Pennsylvania


Return to Religion / Theology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest