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Afterlife vs. Heaven

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Afterlife vs. Heaven

Postby NinjaPuppy » 12 Dec 2009, 01:37

In the begining there was a link in 'General Discussion' from RarelyImpressed titled, "Does Death Exist? New Theory Says "NO" and it was good. Rather than derail the original intent of that topic with a sub-topic, this topic sprung out of it's loins.

Now I'll have to merge the sub-topic chat with this board and then there will be light.

NinjaPuppy wrote:
Article wrote:Think of the 20-watts of energy as simply holo-projecting either this or that result onto a screen. Whether you turn the second beam splitter on or off, it's still the same battery or agent responsible for the projection.

My sentiments exactly. IMO, the human body is merely a temporary transport system.

What about the dog body? The cat body? The elephant body? The fly body? The spider body? The gorilla body? The tree body? The flower body? The busy body?

ProfWag wrote:What about the dog body? The cat body? The elephant body? The fly body? The spider body? The gorilla body? The tree body? The flower body? The busy body?

OK, Mr. Busy Body... I'll give mammels, birds, fish, reptiles, amphibians and maybe even a few insects the benefit of the doubt here. Don't go harshin' my mellow with flies & spiders and their creepy friends. Oh, I forgot mollusks. Gotta have mollusks. They're yummy!

NinjaPuppy wrote:
ProfWag wrote:What about the dog body? The cat body? The elephant body? The fly body? The spider body? The gorilla body? The tree body? The flower body? The busy body?

OK, Mr. Busy Body... I'll give mammels, birds, fish, reptiles, amphibians and maybe even a few insects the benefit of the doubt here. Don't go harshin' my mellow with flies & spiders and their creepy friends. Oh, I forgot mollusks. Gotta have mollusks. They're yummy!

Which brings something else to mind. If all of these other creatures have an afterlife, are the chickens, cows, pigs, and fish going to be pissed off at me for eating them? I mean, think about it. Can you imagine being a good boy or girl all of your life, only to make it to heaven and get met by all the chickens you have eaten in your life. Yikes. It's like a Hitchcock movie.
NinjaPuppy wrote:
ProfWag wrote:Which brings something else to mind. If all of these other creatures have an afterlife, are the chickens, cows, pigs, and fish going to be pissed off at me for eating them? I mean, think about it. Can you imagine being a good boy or girl all of your life, only to make it to heaven and get met by all the chickens you have eaten in your life. Yikes. It's like a Hitchcock movie.

I didn't see any mention of 'heaven' in that article. You're mixing church and state here. 'Afterlife' and 'Heaven' are two different things. Just ask 72 virgins. :lol:

Okay, scratch that heaven part and insert "the other side." If there's not a heaven but an afterlife, does that mean you spend it alone? Boring! If there's an afterlife and there's all sorts of people there, then does that make it a form of heaven? I mean, there are just so many thoughts that can come from death it's almost exhausting.
ProfWag wrote:
NinjaPuppy wrote:
ProfWag wrote:Which brings something else to mind. If all of these other creatures have an afterlife, are the chickens, cows, pigs, and fish going to be pissed off at me for eating them? I mean, think about it. Can you imagine being a good boy or girl all of your life, only to make it to heaven and get met by all the chickens you have eaten in your life. Yikes. It's like a Hitchcock movie.

I didn't see any mention of 'heaven' in that article. You're mixing church and state here. 'Afterlife' and 'Heaven' are two different things. Just ask 72 virgins. :lol:

Okay, scratch that heaven part and insert "the other side." If there's not a heaven but an afterlife, does that mean you spend it alone? Boring! If there's an afterlife and there's all sorts of people there, then does that make it a form of heaven? I mean, there are just so many thoughts that can come from death it's almost exhausting.

I'm going to take the rest of this over to the Religion topic as it can be a rather lengthy explanation. Join me there in a little bit and I'll fill you in on a few different theories and possibilities.
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Re: Afterlife vs. Heaven

Postby NinjaPuppy » 12 Dec 2009, 02:02

Now if you can figure out that messy jumble of quotes into quotes into quotes, you have too much free time on your hands.

Let's being with this last quote:
ProfWag wrote:Okay, scratch that heaven part and insert "the other side." If there's not a heaven but an afterlife, does that mean you spend it alone? Boring! If there's an afterlife and there's all sorts of people there, then does that make it a form of heaven? I mean, there are just so many thoughts that can come from death it's almost exhausting.

Skip all the icky biological 'death' parts, the fear based religious teaching 'death' concepts and go back to the '20 volts of energy' that is you.

Why do we die? According to that article, we don't die. Right? OK, so obviously (and I've thought this for a very long time now) death is death because our physical body ceases to function. Once it stops it begins the normal biological break down. It's a pretty safe bet that once you are cold and blue or begin to putrify in your own natural juices, you're pretty dead by definition. Hopefully that will nip some of your burried alive questions in the bud.

Meanwhile, some people think that since Einstein is right with his matter can never be created or destroyed idea, that your 'energy' continues to exist. Are you with me so far or have I tipped the woo scale beyond your level?
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Re: Afterlife vs. Heaven

Postby NinjaPuppy » 12 Dec 2009, 02:17

So we're now back to some sort of 'energy' with no transport system to carry it around. Some people might believe that upon death that energy disperses, never to be seen again. Some believe that they will somehow find their way to whatever they were taught by their religion. Some people believe they will stick around and play games with two plumbers on the Sci-Fi channel. Some believe they will come back in another life or form, such as a cow and eventually become a Big Mac, and some have no clue and don't particularly care.

There is one thing that we know for sure about death. That is that not one of us alive today knows for fact what the heck happens. Here lies the quandry.
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Re: Afterlife vs. Heaven

Postby NinjaPuppy » 12 Dec 2009, 02:41

We only have experience with the human side of this energy. Emotions and physical pain are probably the two things we deal with the most. Energy doesn't feel pain, that's a biological thing that happens because our brain tells us this information. Some people don't even feel pain due to some sort of miswiring in their brain. Think pain thresholds, some are high and some are low. Emotions are the same thing. If we can control or eliminate them with drugs, then it's got to be a brain thing tied to the physical body that our energy walks around in.

Now let's look at emotions. I believe emotions are learned or instilled by experiences and teaching. They're a whole different ball of wax from anything physical. We have all turned into a bunch of emotionally ruled humans since we no longer have a grip on basic instincts anymore.

Go back to caveman times. His only problem was basic survival. Not to mention that his chances pretty well sucked compared to our standards today. I really don't think that cavemen dealt with too many emotions back in the day. A choice of live or die doesn't allow too much time to ponder things like joy or sorrow. It was full blown testosterone baby. Kill or be killed, survival of the fittest and too bad for Fred and Barney, let's move on before Dino wants dessert.
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Re: Afterlife vs. Heaven

Postby ProfWag » 12 Dec 2009, 02:48

NinjaPuppy wrote:Why do we die? According to that article, we don't die. Right? OK, so obviously (and I've thought this for a very long time now) death is death because our physical body ceases to function. Once it stops it begins the normal biological break down. It's a pretty safe bet that once you are cold and blue or begin to putrify in your own natural juices, you're pretty dead by definition. Hopefully that will nip some of your burried alive questions in the bud.

Meanwhile, some people think that since Einstein is right with his matter can never be created or destroyed idea, that your 'energy' continues to exist. Are you with me so far or have I tipped the woo scale beyond your level?

No, no, I'm with you so far. Please continue...
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Re: Afterlife vs. Heaven

Postby ProfWag » 12 Dec 2009, 02:50

NinjaPuppy wrote:
There is one thing that we know for sure about death. That is that not one of us alive today knows for fact what the heck happens. Here lies the quandry.

Which is why I believe the way I do. Okay, please continue...
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Re: Afterlife vs. Heaven

Postby ProfWag » 12 Dec 2009, 02:53

NinjaPuppy wrote:We only have experience with the human side of this energy. Emotions and physical pain are probably the two things we deal with the most. Energy doesn't feel pain, that's a biological thing that happens because our brain tells us this information. Some people don't even feel pain due to some sort of miswiring in their brain. Think pain thresholds, some are high and some are low. Emotions are the same thing. If we can control or eliminate them with drugs, then it's got to be a brain thing tied to the physical body that our energy walks around in.

Now let's look at emotions. I believe emotions are learned or instilled by experiences and teaching. They're a whole different ball of wax from anything physical. We have all turned into a bunch of emotionally ruled humans since we no longer have a grip on basic instincts anymore.

Go back to caveman times. His only problem was basic survival. Not to mention that his chances pretty well sucked compared to our standards today. I really don't think that cavemen dealt with too many emotions back in the day. A choice of live or die doesn't allow too much time to ponder things like joy or sorrow. It was full blown testosterone baby. Kill or be killed, survival of the fittest and too bad for Fred and Barney, let's move on before Dino wants dessert.

Okay, but what has happened to Fred Flinstone's energy now that it's been a million years and he's nothing but scattered bones? Hopefully, that'll come in the next part! BTW Ninja, this is a great information you've got going on!
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Re: Afterlife vs. Heaven

Postby NinjaPuppy » 12 Dec 2009, 03:23

Fast forward a few thousand years and boy oh boy had things changed. The human race became a bit organized and edjumacated and didn't have to rely on basic survival as much. They got soft and spoiled if you ask me. Evolution was nice but was it really necessary? I'll let you scientific types answer that question.

Enter religion. Mostly it was whatever worked for that tribe or village. They worshiped whatever was available or abundant. They thought that they could change things by asking a god or a tree or the ground for what they needed. The first control freaks! If I pray/ask/dance/worship hard enough I can MAKE it happen! When and where on earth did this concept come from? How did it permeate this entire planet so quickly? It's not like ancient people saw it on FOX TV. Obviously religion is one of those urban legends that just wouldn't die. You'd think that after thousands of years of famine, death, floods, etc. someone would actually get a clue that asking into the wind doesn't really make it happen. However, it was pretty well known that not conforming to the beliefs of those in charge would result in a painful death. Hmmmm, some things never change. Oh well.

OK, fast forward again and insert some organized religion disguised as a way to take over the world and get the masses to conform to one individuals tainted thought process. Add a heapin' helpin' of fire and brimstone otherwise known as basic fear and you have got yourself one good game plan. Let's call it EVIL! Now let's give it a name. How about d'evil? OK, but let's make it THE devil because we can cover more bases that way. One little fallen angel can't possibly cover everyone all the time like our monothesitic imaginary friend 'God' upstairs can.

All this time no one had a clue as to what happened when you died but they did come up with a concept for those who are good or evil which of course is heaven and hell. I don't know when they built purgatory however. They also came up with 2,000 painful way to get you there if you didn't follow their 10 rules to make sure to get their point across.

So for thousands of years we have had this teaching interjected into our brains and taught how to think, what to think, how to act, etc. Fear now rules the masses.

Somewhere around the 1400s the 'Seven Deadly Sins' became all the rage. Here they are:
anger
greed
sloth
pride
lust
envy
gluttony

Now let's get back to Fred and Barney and notice how this is pretty much all they knew. I don't think that 'envy' was a problem in Bedrock however. Also notice how that this is the basic game plan and lifestyle of any ruler or person of stature since the begining of recorded history.
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Re: Afterlife vs. Heaven

Postby NinjaPuppy » 12 Dec 2009, 03:43

I see that ProfWag is sitting in the back of the class with his hand up.

ProfWag wrote:Okay, but what has happened to Fred Flinstone's energy now that it's been a million years and he's nothing but scattered bones?


Fred and Barney aren't even scattered bones in most cases. Most likely prehistoric predator poop, then ancient dung beetle poop, then who knows what eats dung beetle poop, I'm just glad it's not me. However, their energy goes on! According to Wiccan belief you go to Summerland. It's not really thought of as a location or a place where everything is sugar and spice and everything nice (like me) but more of an alternate dimension. The idea is a bit between Heaven and reincarnation as theories. It offers the most possible outcomes for each individual set of energy. It combines different takes on death and gives you choices. I like choices.

If energy can't be created or destroyed, then obviously it has to go somewhere. It's a big universe out there, lots of room to hang out. If it can't be created then some of it has to return or go somewhere as well or there would be no more births. Am I warm here?
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Re: Afterlife vs. Heaven

Postby NinjaPuppy » 12 Dec 2009, 04:03

Meanwhile, back to the Wiccan thoughts... you have a multitude of choices. Now let's remove the fact that Wicca is a religion and let's just say that your '20 volts' have been released from it's physical bioloical transport system and has to go somewhere. So it's going to be released right? Energy isn't going to hang in some decaying skin or dung beetle poop forever. It might not actually leave like you see in the movies where they have some white mist-like semi-transparent 'spirit' sit up from the dead body and start checking things out. That's a brain thing, not an energy thing. But it might. NDE's have been recounted as something like this so it certainly adds some oomph to that theory. Just eliminate the imaginary reproduction of the physical body that Hollywood likes to throw in for effect.

So now your '20 volts' is fresh as a daisy with no place to be. The physical body is dead, your brain is dead. That was the only reason you felt things like pain or hot or cold. All your 20 volts feels is nothing. There is no good there is no bad, there just is.....energy. That sounds like something that beats the crap out of dealing with a brain for a living. Many NDEs speak about a 'white light' and a very peaceful feeling. Well, that's what it's all about. After the white light and peace, I guess you get to pick what's behind door #3 if you'd like or that our energy just stays in that state of being. Is it so hard to imagine that our 20 volts or residual energy sticks around without all the earthly trappings or taught desires? Are we all so darned impress with ourselves that we think that our current state of mind and existence is superior? I mean, I love my current life but if it means a simple existence of released energy, I'll take it. Energy doesn't have to worry about much now does it? It doesn't have to eat, sleep, deal with disease or pain, put up with noisy neighbor energy, make small talk at dinner parties... it just is.
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Re: Afterlife vs. Heaven

Postby NinjaPuppy » 12 Dec 2009, 04:11

Oh and by the way... energy doesn't have to talk it's way into some pearly gates either or impress some old dude with a white beard holding a staff sitting on some throne. Besides, that old guy looks too much like an 'off season' Santa Claus to me to be credible. :D

While I'm at it, and I know I'm going to piss off half of the population of California.... energy doesn't mate and procreate either, so you don't have to look good. But of course, you never know. :lol:
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Re: Afterlife vs. Heaven

Postby NinjaPuppy » 12 Dec 2009, 04:47

The End
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