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The mythological Pagan roots of Christianity (with videos)

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The mythological Pagan roots of Christianity (with videos)

Postby Scepcop » 13 Nov 2009, 06:29

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Debunk ... Page29.htm

The mythological Pagan roots of Christianity (See these videos)

Most Christians are unaware that the motif of the dying and rising Savior is not unique to Christianity, but in fact has been prevalent in many ancient myths and religions throughout the world. The similarities and parallels with the story of Jesus are astounding. Thus it has led many historians and scholars to conclude that Christianity evolved from these motifs, incorporating them into its doctrine as well.

In the first part of the revolutionary film Zeitgeist The Movie, Peter Joseph explains the Pagan mythological connections with Christianity, such as Sun worship and the dying/rising savior motif. His sources are based on the work of Archarya S, author of The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold. You can watch it below in these parts from YouTube.








Of course, in desperation, Christian Apologists from ancient times til now attempt to argue that Satan created these same counterfeit motifs before Jesus in Pagan myths in order to deceive people into thinking that Christianity is copied from them. Early Church apologists, such as Tertullian, went to great lengths to break these associations, even claiming that the devil caused the similarities to occur:

"The devil, whose business is to pervert the truth, mimics the exact circumstance of the Divine Sacraments. He baptizes his believers and promises forgiveness of sins…he celebrates the oblation of bread, and brings in the symbol of the resurrection. Let us therefore acknowledge the craftiness of the devil, who copied certain things of those that be Divine." Tertullian, (155 - 222 AD , CHAP. XL.- THE PRESCRIPTION AGAINST HERETICS. )


Justin Martyr, another early Christian apologist, alluded to the fact that pre-Christian pagan religions with the same features and motifs existed in his time, in these writings:

"When we say that he, Jesus Christ, our teacher, was produced without sexual union, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into Heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those who you esteem Sons of Jupiter." (First Apology / The Apostolic Fathers: Martyr and Irenaeus by Philip Schaff. Eerdmans Pub.)

"He was born of a virgin, accept this in common with what you believe of Perseus." (I Apol., chs. xxi, xxii; ANF. i, 170; cf. Add. ad Grace. ch. lxix; Ib. 233)


It's obvious that Justin and other early Christians knew how similar Christianity was to the Pagan religions. However, Justin had a solution. As far as he was concerned, the Devil did it. The Devil had the foresight to come before Christ, and create these characteristics in the Pagan world (Freke & Gandy: The Jesus Mysteries, Three Rivers Press, Chapter 3 -"Diabolical Mimicry")

What’s funny is that such explanations that “the Devil was behind it” contradicts another teaching of theirs that had Satan known that Jesus would rise from the dead and offer Salvation to those who would believe in him, he would not have had the princes of the world crucify him, which of course implies that Satan did not anticipate that Christ would become a dying/rising savior.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: The mythological Pagan roots of Christianity (with videos)

Postby NinjaPuppy » 13 Nov 2009, 21:33

The information in the first video is really off base. They start off with the similarities between paganism and christianity but they are really stretching the comparisons. I have no clue where they are getting this whole Jesus or savior reference (being born of a virgin etc.) from as it's nothing that I have ever heard of and the best I could find was this quote from Wikipedia to back up my claim:

From Wikipedia wrote: This is the result of early Christian exposure to Egyptian art. In a survey of "twenty leading Egyptologists" by Dr. W. Ward Gasque, a Christian scholar, found that all who responded recognised "that the image of the baby Horus and Isis has influenced the Christian iconography of Madonna and Child" but that there were no other similarities, eg no evidence that Horus was born of a virgin, had twelve followers, etc.

Not that Wikipedia is the be all, end all of the truth but since I am a practicing pagan, this BS is nothing that I have ever heard before, except for this video.

Christianity sucked up those ancient pagan beliefs to get the people to buy into the new teachings. Where do you think that they get the Easter egg? Even as a small child, I had always wondered what the heck Easter eggs and chocolate bunnies had to do with the death of Jesus Christ? Well, let me tell you....

Spring or Ostara (March 21) marks the spring equinox. Animals begin to mate or depending on the climate begin to give birth. Now we all know that on March 21 chicken eggs will stand on end. If you haven't tried it, give it a go. If you don't know what I'm talking about, here's a pic: http://www.westerngardeners.com/wp-cont ... x-blog.jpg

Rabbits being their mating season and you've heard the saying, "crazy as a March hare"? Well, rabbits do get a little crazy and go through some pretty crazy motions during mating season. Ostara is all about rebirth of the earth, the start of a new growing season, replishment of food, warmer days, longer days, etc. Pagans celebrate this rebirth, not to mention they knew they would be eating a lot better now that animal hibernation was over and the birds would start hatching out of their eggs.

Here are the pagan holidays as compared to the christian holy days-

Samhain: ( October 31th ) - All saints day then turned into Halloween
Yule: ( December 21st ) - Christmas or the birth of Jesus
Imbolc: ( February 2nd ) - Lenten and let's not forget St. Valentine's day
Ostara: ( March 21 st ) - Easter - give or take a few weeks according to the full moon
Beltane: ( April 31st ) - Assention day and then 'May Day' but that one backfired on them
Midsummer: ( June 21st ) - This one is still up for grabs
Lammas ( August 2nd) or Lughnassadh ( August 7th ) - Lammas or harvest or transfiguration of Christ to some
Mabon: ( September 21st ) - Autum equinox

This seemed to work well to gain many coverts. The old traditions were still recognized and celebrated but with minor changes. It took hundreds of years to get the idea of christianity across to the pagans. Popes came and went, more people accepted christianity but there were still too many hold outs to have to deal with around the globe. Fast forward a few hundred years....

Enter the devil and demons! The old pagan gods are no longer acceptable and if you worship them, you worship the devil! That was in 1484. Pope Inocencius VII edicted his infamous bule, naming two priests, Heinrich Kramer and Jakob Sprenger Inquisitors. They thought up the "Malleus Maleficarum". That got rid of those pesky hold outs real fast. OK, two hundred more years, give or take but it sure did make the pagans clean up their public act.

BTW, way back in the Bible, mediums were mentioned and of course condemed. This seems to be a religious thing, so I guess they couldn't find a reliable medium back then either.... either that or they were really good and scared the daylights out of those who would like to take over. Gotta love it! This whole paranormal thing has been debated since the begining of time.
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Re: The mythological Pagan roots of Christianity (with videos)

Postby Scepcop » 13 Nov 2009, 23:42

Wow Ninjapuppy, I didn't know you knew so much about religion and religious origins. I didn't know you were a practicing pagan either. Are you part of a circle or a solitary practitioner?

The info from the first part of Zeitgeist comes from a book by Archarya S called "The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold". The author claims that all her connections are sourced. Here is more info on the book:

http://www.amazon.com/Christ-Conspiracy ... 0932813747

Here is a raving review of the book by Earl Doherty, author of "The Jesus Puzzle" a book that argues that Jesus never existed.

Exciting and Provocative, February 21, 2000

By Earl Doherty (Ontario, Canada) - See all my reviews

The further one goes into this book, the more one recognizes how vast is the mythological background of the ancient world that the modern era has completely lost sight of. Those who imagine that the Gospel story represents singular historical events are in for a shock when they realize the degree to which the Christian myth of Jesus of Nazareth was a reflection of mythical motifs and traditions which saturated ancient and even prehistoric cultures. There is barely an original or virgin bone in Christ's body, and Christians in the early centuries were regularly assailed by pagan detractors who accused them of reworking old ideas and copying from a host of predecessors.

The other thing the reader comes to recognize is that Acharya S has done a superb job in bringing together this rich panoply of ancient world mythology and culture, and presenting it in a comprehensive and compelling fashion. Moreover, she grabs the reader from the first page and doesn't let go. Her style is colorful, bold, occasionally (and justifiably) indignant, even a touch reckless at times, but never off the track--a little like an exciting roller coaster ride. It may take a fair amount of concentration to absorb all this material, but even if you don't integrate everything on first reading, the broader strokes will leave you convinced that the story of Jesus is simply an imaginative refashioning of the mythological heritage of centuries and that no such man ever existed.

She covers a wide range of interesting and provocative topics, with plenty of stimulating insights. Especially effective is her attention to elements of the Old Testament that one doesn't usually encounter in biblical studies: astrology in the bible, the mythological nature of much of the Old Testament material, the falsity of the idea that the Hebrews were monotheistic, even a chapter on Sex and Drugs. She delves into Egyptian and Indian precedents for the possible derivation of many of the bible's traditions. When she ranges even further afield and notes the astonishingly widespread commonality of certain religious and cultural motifs from one end of the planet to the other, extending back into very ancient times, we are on intriguing if speculative ground, but for the most part the author simply lets the data speak for itself, and readers can draw what conclusions their own adventurous spirits might wish.

As for her detailed picture of how Gospel elements closely conform to astrological and mythological symbols in the atmosphere of the time, or how the story of Jesus parallels the features of other savior gods: if even half of these things were in the minds of the Gospel writers when they fashioned their symbolic tale (to which one could add the midrashic borrowing of passages from the Hebrew scriptures to provide so much of the Gospel structure, its `events' and even their wording), there can be no doubt that such writers were well aware that their work had nothing to do with history.

There are those who have expressed some uncertainty about the scholarship which originally presented some of the subject matter dealt with in this book, since much of it comes from the 19th and early 20th centuries. But there is a prominent reason why today's researcher is inevitably thrown back on this early period of investigation. The so-called History of Religions School was a feature of that period, represented by such luminaries as Reitzenstein, Bousset and Cumont, and other, less famous scholars. Its conclusions about the relation of Christianity to the thought and religious expression of the time, especially in regard to the mystery cults and even solar mythology, proved very unpalatable to mainstream New Testament study. That was also the period of intense examination of the idea that no Jesus had existed at all (J. M. Robertson, Arthur Drews, the Dutch Radical School, etc.). The result was a backlash and a circling of the wagons, creating a fortress mentality against such scholarship for the latter three-quarters of the 20th century. As a result, there has been little recent investigation of that History of Religions material, especially sympathetic investigation. Acharya may draw to some degree on that older scholarship, but while certain aspects of it are necessarily a little dated, one of the things which struck me in her quotations from it (and more and more of it is now being reprinted) is how perceptive and compelling most of it continues to be. We sorely need a new History of Religions School for the 21st century, to apply modern techniques to this important ancient material. Perhaps this book will help bring that about.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: The mythological Pagan roots of Christianity (with videos)

Postby NinjaPuppy » 14 Nov 2009, 03:00

Scepcop wrote:Wow Ninjapuppy, I didn't know you knew so much about religion and religious origins. I didn't know you were a practicing pagan either. Are you part of a circle or a solitary practitioner?

My religious background always makes me laugh. I think I'm covered under more religions than most. My great grandparents on my grandfather's side were Russian Jews but they never seemed to publicly admit this little fact. Their son (my grandfather) was agnostic for all intents and purposes and married into another Jewish family that fled Russia due to religious persecution. Upon arrival in the US, they converted to Byzantine Catholic or Eastern Orthordox, and sometimes called Greek Catholic. It was more or less an arranged marriage or perhaps 'permitted' is a better word for it as my grandmother's family had very strict rules in the marriage department and I am guessing that my grandfather fit into their idea of a proper marriage considering his parent's heritage.

Of course the family values and teachings were Jewish in tradition but the public religion was switched. Now due to travel difficulties the Byzantine religion of the family switched over to Roman Catholic to save time and look good for the neighborhood. Had to fit in and there were no local Orthodox churches within walking distance to get the family to church on Sunday morning.

My mom being a rebel, decided to go agnostic as an adult and married my dad, who's family was of the Hungarian Reformed variety. Dad wasn't much for church either so they got along very well on the religious front or should I say, lack of religion. Along comes me and mom hasn't got a clue what to do about my religious upbringing so she does this Roman Catholic baptism for me so my soul won't rot in limbo should she be wrong and I start my journey down the religious path of too many questions for one little Catholic kid, who by the way speaks perfect Yiddish. Are you still with me here?

Next mom decides that this Roman Catholic stuff was much too far off from anything she wants to deal with so she sends me to a very exclusive Byzantine Catholic private school. I'll compare any Roman Catholic's nun from hell with the group that taught me and I'll win, hands down anyday of the week. Mom never bothered to notice that this school was prep school for the Seminary and Convent. By fourth grade I had studied just about every religion known to man as that's all part of the basic education and by 6th grade I was on my way to be shipped off to a convent as a novice. However, I seemed to have too many questions that no one seemed to want to address. I was always in major trouble for asking questions about why none of these religious teachings made any sense. I'll spare you my philosophical quandries that seemed to practically make the nuns pass out and that got me in hot water with the priest.

I wind up in public school in the 7th grade due to not being able to 'get with the program' and now I get switched back to the Roman Catholic church with my grandmother. Besides, I had to go through the rigors of 'Confirmation' since I was baptized Roman Catholic and Byzantine Catholics are Confirmed at Baptism, so I was missing one of those all important sacraments. I finish up with that little snafu and continue studying religion but since this was public school, they actually had books on Witchcraft in the library and that was not one of the major religions taught. Paganism of course was, but since Wicca is an offshoot of paganism and other than it being rubbish, the religion of it was never discussed. I'm now in my teens and like most kids with too much information and too much time, Wicca seemed to be more real than any of the other invisible divine concepts taught to me.

Now I'm an adult and raising two kids who's father just happens to also be Byzantine Catholic and I decide to come out of the broom closet. It wasn't pretty.

What I found unusual was that my friends who I had met through work just happened to be practicing Wiccans as well. We find a third level High Priestess and form a coven and of course do the coven thing for many years and due to personal reasons, the coven has to disband. Then I move away, and finding a Gardnerian Coven in the deep south is like leaning into a punch, so I now do the solitary thing for my own safety.

That's pretty much me in a nutshell.
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