Can a skeptic believe in GOD ??

[Arouet]

[Ellie]

Perhaps the problem here is that for me there is no essential difference between the two. Yes, that'll be it. You see I thought I was explaining there how it could be compatible with an all-loving deity. But I have been told I have a rather uncommon view of these things.

[Arouet]

[Ellie]

Ha ha - no, like I said I have an unusual view, which can only logical follow observance. Therefore my idea of god does not NEED to be ultimate 'creator'. But in any case, you can't be serious about not being able to imagine any possibility of us existing the way we do and a god being loving. I can think of quite a few right now off the top of my head. And for starters actually, if you had a planet where nothing bad happened and resources were evenly distributed you immediately lose all the main things which create dynamism - and dynamism is life. Without dynamism we are static and may as well not exist at all. At best we would never develop, at worst we would die out fairly rapidly.

As it stands however, the universe is a very cold, dark, empty, lifeless place - so where we are IS relatively speaking a bit of a paradise. But on top of that, which is better - to learn by experience or to never have to? We know it's to learn by experience. Imagine this: a god which has started a species off (or even a universe, because it's all one system) and wants it to work for itself. There is only one way to do that, and that's to let everything make it's own way. You can learn facts from a book, but people only learn how to live by living. How many times have you told your children something you wish you had know when you were their age, and it doesn't really sink in with them - not really - because they havn't had those experiences themselves yet?

I wasn't kidding when I said that I saw no essential difference between god and science. For me god is physics. It's logic. And things of that ilk. Life exists in a certain way, and there are universal rules which stand as 'best practice' and which we must learn to live in to survive and grow. Take the laws of thermodynamics - that's your 'good and evil' right there. Biological pragmatism governs what we must define as morals, because it is simply the best way for a species to survive.

I don't really understand why people associate love with having everything made easy for them and done for them, particularly when we see what happens to people and animals who experience this even a little.

[Arouet]

[Ellie]

Where is the love dagnammit!

Well ok, the suffering thing for me is all or nothing. You interfere or you don't. But that's just my understanding of the processes and consequences I described. And I am arguing for a personal god - but everyone can have a personal god - and indeed does, whether they understand that or not, but hey, that's another discussion

Er, short and slightly facetious reply, but I really gotta put the interwebs down and go out for a bit.