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Why was Adam exempt from the transgression of disobedience?

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Why was Adam exempt from the transgression of disobedience?

Postby Greatest I am » 14 Sep 2014, 03:47

Why was Adam exempt from the transgression when the transgression was disobedience?

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

I think that Adam, not being deceived, was more culpable than Eve.

Why then did God favor the guiltiest, Adam, with, --- he shall rule over you?

Men rule over women? Why when men were not deceived but disobeyed?

What was the transgression, --- if not a wise decision to choose knowledge and wisdom and shun immortality of the flesh, --- even if that were possible, --- and why was Adan not punished as hard as Eve when he was clearly more guilty?

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DL
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Re: Why was Adam exempt from the transgression of disobedien

Postby Scepcop » 16 Sep 2014, 16:53

What do you mean? Both Adam and Eve suffered and fell from grace. Humans and animals experienced suffering after that.

Yes Eve tempted Adam to eat the apple. That's the story. Of course Adam was tempted and deceived. What do you mean?

Why do you think Adam was more guilty? The Bible doesn't say that.

The Bible verse you quoted is in the New Testament. It's about women being silent in the Church. It says that in 1st and 2nd Corinthians too, by Paul.

In the mentality of the ancients, everything has its place and order. Freedom might be fun but it's not good for society overall. Consider this: If all the trillions of cells and organs in your body wanted to be "free" from their functions in your body, would that be good for your health? Of course not. You'd collapse.

So there are good arguments against all living organisms being totally free. Society can't work that way. Neither can the system in your body. There's gotta be some structure or order.

In the modern Western world, people are very spoiled. Everyone wants special rights and special entitlements. There's no humility or obedience to wiser authority. In the old days, people were proud to serve their King or Queen and honored to do so. We have no such honor today, only selfishness.

Try to see the other side of what you believe. Ancient ways existed for a reason. They worked in the logic of the times. There is no perfect system. Every system, even the modern ones, has flaws and inequities. Society works best when everyone is happy in their place. That's what history teaches us. Ancient Rome and Greece were at their strongest when there was unity and structure and people were honored to serve their rulers and country. When everyone becomes spoiled and entitled, society weakens and falls apart. That's how cultures fall. America is in a state of moral decay now.

Try to be understanding of the ancients and try to see things from their perspective.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Why was Adam exempt from the transgression of disobedien

Postby SydneyPSIder » 19 Sep 2014, 12:44

Middle eastern patriarchy. It's just an explanatory myth for the cultural social order in the region it was written, as well as representing the best 'creation science' available at the time, and thus providing satisfying answers.
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Re: Why was Adam exempt from the transgression of disobedien

Postby Greatest I am » 21 Sep 2014, 09:11

SydneyPSIder wrote:Middle eastern patriarchy. It's just an explanatory myth for the cultural social order in the region it was written, as well as representing the best 'creation science' available at the time, and thus providing satisfying answers.


Kind of rough but no argument.

That would apply to how the Sumerians thought more than how the Jews did who plagiarized the myths. I think the Jews saw it more as a right of passage and that is why they do not call Genesis our fall as Christians do but our elevation.

http://www.mrrena.com/misc/judaism2.php

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue".

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DL
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Re: Why was Adam exempt from the transgression of disobedien

Postby Greatest I am » 21 Sep 2014, 09:25

Scepcop wrote:What do you mean? Both Adam and Eve suffered and fell from grace. Humans and animals experienced suffering after that.

Yes Eve tempted Adam to eat the apple. That's the story. Of course Adam was tempted and deceived. What do you mean?

Why do you think Adam was more guilty? The Bible doesn't say that.

The Bible verse you quoted is in the New Testament. It's about women being silent in the Church. It says that in 1st and 2nd Corinthians too, by Paul.

In the mentality of the ancients, everything has its place and order. Freedom might be fun but it's not good for society overall. Consider this: If all the trillions of cells and organs in your body wanted to be "free" from their functions in your body, would that be good for your health? Of course not. You'd collapse.

So there are good arguments against all living organisms being totally free. Society can't work that way. Neither can the system in your body. There's gotta be some structure or order.

In the modern Western world, people are very spoiled. Everyone wants special rights and special entitlements. There's no humility or obedience to wiser authority. In the old days, people were proud to serve their King or Queen and honored to do so. We have no such honor today, only selfishness.

Try to see the other side of what you believe. Ancient ways existed for a reason. They worked in the logic of the times. There is no perfect system. Every system, even the modern ones, has flaws and inequities. Society works best when everyone is happy in their place. That's what history teaches us. Ancient Rome and Greece were at their strongest when there was unity and structure and people were honored to serve their rulers and country. When everyone becomes spoiled and entitled, society weakens and falls apart. That's how cultures fall. America is in a state of moral decay now.

Try to be understanding of the ancients and try to see things from their perspective.


Eve came out as Adam's slave, more or less. I win the argument.

You have to realize that the ancients lived in areas where the city states often were in areas of limited and finite resources. That is a large part of why they say order as the firm structure that you like.

In todays reality, our socio economic demographic pyramids can be more flexible as well as our laws. The spirit of the law has always been more important than the letter or firm orderly structure of the written law.

Laws are made for men. Men are not made for laws.

I do agree that the tyranny of the ancient legal system is a requirement for any government today. What you would need to agree with is that the government would be something like a Timocratic system, that seeks to rule for duty and honor.

I like it because, as in the times you like, only net tax payers would get a vote and net tax takers would not have the right to tell the tax payers how much they will give the (themselves), as voting tax takers. Not to insult tax takers.

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DL
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