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Caesar's Messiah - How Jesus was invented by the Romans

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Caesar's Messiah - How Jesus was invented by the Romans

Postby Scepcop » 02 Jul 2013, 18:39

Check out this new documentary by Joseph Atwill called "Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus". It presents compelling evidence that the "myth of Jesus" was created by the Roman Emperors.

Here is the trailer:



Promo video:



To buy, download or rent this new documentary, go to their website at:

http://www.caesarsmessiah.com/

Or you can get it from torrent sites if you are on a budget.

I already saw it and can say that it's very fascinating, informative and compelling. Anyone who's interested in religious history should see it.
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Re: Caesar's Messiah - Was Jesus invented by the Romans?

Postby ProfWag » 03 Jul 2013, 07:22

Actually, I didn't watch the video but based on the words, I've always believed this. Constantine and his Mom were quite influential and Christianity would probably not be a religion without them.
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Re: Caesar's Messiah - Was Jesus invented by the Romans?

Postby Arouet » 03 Jul 2013, 08:34

ProfWag wrote:Actually, I didn't watch the video but based on the words, I've always believed this. Constantine and his Mom were quite influential and Christianity would probably not be a religion without them.


Certainly Constantine was pivotal in Christianity surviving and becoming the dominant religion (and did so for political reasons as I understand it). That said, the basics of the Jesus story would have had to have pre-existed Constantine. Once the roman empire adopted christianity it certainly played a crucial role in what version of Jesus became doctrine.
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Re: Caesar's Messiah - Was Jesus invented by the Romans?

Postby Scepcop » 03 Jul 2013, 10:33

ProfWag wrote:Actually, I didn't watch the video but based on the words, I've always believed this. Constantine and his Mom were quite influential and Christianity would probably not be a religion without them.


You should see it then. To watch it online only costs $5 and to download it only costs $10. You can see or download it here: http://www.caesarsmessiah.com/

Arouet wrote:Certainly Constantine was pivotal in Christianity surviving and becoming the dominant religion (and did so for political reasons as I understand it). That said, the basics of the Jesus story would have had to have pre-existed Constantine. Once the roman empire adopted christianity it certainly played a crucial role in what version of Jesus became doctrine.


Why do you think that Jesus must have existed? When you go back to the historical records of 30-33 AD the search for Jesus turns up empty. That's why they believe that he must have been invented far later.

The early Gnostic Christians also did not believe in a historical Christ. They believed that he was a divine figure but didn't come to Earth. Perhaps that's why the Romans tried to destroy them.
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Re: Caesar's Messiah - Was Jesus invented by the Romans?

Postby Arouet » 03 Jul 2013, 12:02

I didn't say I believed Jesus must have existed. I said that the Jesus story must have predated Constantine. I don't know whether a literal Jesus existed - I wouldn't be surprised if there was some figure the legend was based on. The consensus at present seems to be that there was likely a figure like that.

I don't believe the Empire invented the Jesus character - what they did, in the face of a growing movement and in order to get their support to win some crucial battles was to adopt christianity in order to get those military resources. It's still pretty cyncial, but much more plausible in my opinion than inventing a religion, hoping it gained grassroot support, then a few hundred years later officially adopting it to gain the miltiary muscle the followers had.

You give people too much credit for forseability Scepcop - taking advantage of existing conditions is much easier than a 300 year plot to retain power. The empire was falling - adopting christianity gave it some more time.

But why would the fact that historical documents not existing for a 40 year period as evidence that the religion was invented whole cloth by the Empire? Certainly there were reasons for the empire to destroy earlier documents once they were involved. And the major libraries burning down a few times certainly didn't help things any! I don't know why you would think that original documents from that time period must still be around today.

I certainly believe the New Testament is fiction - just not fiction drafted by the Empire.

You've got to remember Scepcop, christianty at the beginning was one of thousands of so-called mystery religions. There were tons of them. Most of them are gone to history. Christianity was able to grab a foothold and gradually grow, until they became big enough that the empire couldn't kill them or ignore them - so they co-opted them.

Remember these are events that took place over centuries.
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Re: Caesar's Messiah - Was Jesus invented by the Romans?

Postby ProfWag » 03 Jul 2013, 18:44

Most historians agree that Jesus was a real person and probably a prophet during the time. Vatican records are also pretty good about showing Peter the Disciple as central to not only trying to spread the word of Jesus but being the first Pope of Rome and lineage traced through the times. Whether or not Jesus was the son of God is a different story altogether, however.
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Re: Caesar's Messiah - Why Jesus was invented by the Romans

Postby Scepcop » 03 Jul 2013, 20:09

Here is an interview with Joseph Atwill, maker of the documentary and author of the book with the same name, on Red Ice Radio.



Here is a 30 minute presentation by Joseph Atwill about how and why the Roman Emperors invented the Jesus myth, and how the Gospels were written with a method known as Typology.

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Re: Caesar's Messiah - Why Jesus was invented by the Romans

Postby really? » 03 Jul 2013, 20:16

Notice how the commentary of both Arouet and Profwag has been ignored. That's the usual modus operandi for Winston. It would be a pleasant surprise if he would put as much thought into what is known as he does with what is speculative.
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Re: Caesar's Messiah - Why Jesus was invented by the Romans

Postby NinjaPuppy » 04 Jul 2013, 00:00

really? wrote:Notice how the commentary of both Arouet and Profwag has been ignored. That's the usual modus operandi for Winston. It would be a pleasant surprise if he would put as much thought into what is known as he does with what is speculative.

Considering that some of us are here specifically to discuss the speculative and some are here to debunk skeptics, I'd say that most of us are on point. ;)
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Re: Caesar's Messiah - Why Jesus was invented by the Romans

Postby really? » 04 Jul 2013, 04:22

NinjaPuppy wrote:
really? wrote:Notice how the commentary of both Arouet and Profwag has been ignored. That's the usual modus operandi for Winston. It would be a pleasant surprise if he would put as much thought into what is known as he does with what is speculative.

Considering that some of us are here specifically to discuss the speculative and some are here to debunk skeptics, I'd say that most of us are on point. ;)


You've been here long enough to know he does not discuss, he states and then leaves. It would be good if he were more engaged and engaging.
Remember you just called me out recently for doing the same as he. Tsk tsk
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Re: Caesar's Messiah - Why Jesus was invented by the Romans

Postby NinjaPuppy » 04 Jul 2013, 07:43

really? wrote:
NinjaPuppy wrote:
really? wrote:Notice how the commentary of both Arouet and Profwag has been ignored. That's the usual modus operandi for Winston. It would be a pleasant surprise if he would put as much thought into what is known as he does with what is speculative.

Considering that some of us are here specifically to discuss the speculative and some are here to debunk skeptics, I'd say that most of us are on point. ;)


You've been here long enough to know he does not discuss, he states and then leaves. It would be good if he were more engaged and engaging.
Remember you just called me out recently for doing the same as he. Tsk tsk

Oh go tsk, tsk yourself there young man. There are two distinct differences here. When Winston posts a topic, he gives his personal insight or questions about what he has posted. You, not so much. Besides, he owns this forum. ;) Now back on topic please.
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Re: Caesar's Messiah - Why Jesus was invented by the Romans

Postby ProfWag » 04 Jul 2013, 08:06

NinjaPuppy wrote:Oh go tsk, tsk yourself there young man. There are two distinct differences here. When Winston posts a topic, he gives his personal insight or questions about what he has posted. You, not so much. Besides, he owns this forum. ;) Now back on topic please.

Ya' know, I've been thinking about this and I'm not sure you're right this time Ninja. Winston is notorious for posting what OTHER people say. I'm not sure I've ever heard him give his own opinions on a post, especially other people's post, unless he's in attack mode.
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Re: Caesar's Messiah - Why Jesus was invented by the Romans

Postby NinjaPuppy » 04 Jul 2013, 09:27

You're probably right but I don't want to derail this topic or let really?'s comment go without any response.
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Re: Caesar's Messiah - Why Jesus was invented by the Romans

Postby SydneyPSIder » 07 Jul 2013, 16:18

I thought Christianity was more of a Greek movement in a way -- that the early NT docs were written in Greek for a Greek audience, as that is where the early churches were based. That hardly seems like a Roman invention. Further, Judea was a relatively remote outpost of the Roman empire that was full of upstarts they kept having to put down. I'm sure they saw them as yokels and barbarians back in Rome, lacking civilisation and technology. Hence the sacking of the temple in 70AD followed by a further attack on the Judeans in about 130AD to finally break them up -- whereupon many of them dispersed into the European Roman empire in the mondial diaspora, where they roamed until today. The early Christians in Rome were fed pretty repetitively to lions and tigers I understand.
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Re: Caesar's Messiah - Why Jesus was invented by the Romans

Postby Greatest I am » 10 Jul 2013, 23:20

Arouet

Atwill ties Christianity to the Roman political machine by stating that Titus Flavius Josephus (37 – c. 1000 wrote the n t.

That was 250 - 300 YEARS BEFORE Constantine.

From Constantine, the progression of the God of war went to the Franks and that is why we have Christianity in the West.

You also spoke of a Jesus that predated the one murdered by his father.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrDGgKunPsY

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