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Why Christianity is 100 Percent Anti-Freedom and Pro-Tyranny

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Why Christianity is 100 Percent Anti-Freedom and Pro-Tyranny

Postby Scepcop » 17 Oct 2011, 02:46

Christians may be shocked to know this: If you are a true loyal Christian, according to the Bible, then you are 100 percent pro-tyranny and anti-freedom. This is easily provable from the Bible itself. Face it. What you Christians are in denial about, is that clearly, the God depicted in your Bible is an evil tyrant who kills anyone who disobeys him, often for trivial reasons, and places ZERO value on freedom, freethought and rationality. His law demands 100 percent obedience and subservience, threatening death and damnation as a consequence for even one noncompliance, which is insane. That is crystal clear. NOTHING in the Bible supports human freedom, free choice, or liberty at all! Period.

Christianity and Fascism share the following core attributes:

a) You must obey or be punished.
b) No independent thoughts or free speech. Only conformity is allowed.
c) Your ruler is to be feared, for fear keeps you obedient to authority.
d) The use of fear and guilt as psychological control mechanisms.
e) The view that the individual is weak and powerless, and his/her life is without purpose unless aligned to serve a "higher power" or "collective." (e.g. God, state or dictator).

What this means is that you cannot be a devout Christian and believe in freedom or free choice at the same time. And if you do, then you are a hypocrite. Your religious doctrines and Bible clearly declare that anything less than complete obedience and subservience to God's will is sin and deserves nothing less than death and damnation, according to God's law. To do what you want rather than submit to God's will is seen as rebellion and sin against God. The Bible is clear on this. What this means that by being a Christian, you stand for ABSOLUTE TYRANNY, the murder of anyone who disobeys, and are totally AGAINST freedom, free choice, liberty, freethinking and reason. You can deny that all you want, but the fact is the fact.

Throughout the Bible, one simple message is consistent: OBEY GOD OR DIE! And in the New Testament, this has been modified as: Believe or be eternally damned! There are plenty of examples in the Bible where God killed people, often innocent (including women and children), for trivial reasons. For example, when Lot's wife looked back at Sodom and Gomorrah burning, disobeying God, she instantly turned to salt (Genesis 19). Now really, is looking at something really worth the death penalty? Well not really, but brainwashed Christians believe that God is 100 percent just and perfect (simply because they were told so), and therefore anything he does must be completely right. It's obvious circular reasoning. And in 2 Kings 2:23-24, God sent out bears to kill 42 children after they made fun of one of his prophets. Sometimes, God even kills innocent people to their leaders in the Bible. For example, in Exodus 12, he sent an angel to kill the firstborn children of Egypt, just to punish the Pharaoh. And in 1 Chronicles 21:14, God kills 70,000 people just to punish King David.

The BIGGEST HYPOCRISY in all this is that the Christian God gave as one of his Ten Commandments the law that says, "Thou shalt not kill." How can you respect a God who is such a big hypocrite? You can't, unless you are totally brainwashed and your sense of reason is hijacked. But of course, brainwashed people do not know that they are brainwashed, otherwise they would try to deprogram themselves.

Now, is killing innocent people (including women and children) for the disobedience of their leader a moral thing to do? I don't think so. But again, brainwashed Christians believe that God is 100 percent just and perfect (with no valid basis) and so will claim that whatever he does must be right. Again, complete circular reasoning, based on nothing more than what others have told them and what text in a book says, which is not real evidence at all. No one who does such things would be considered a decent person in the real world, but a monster. Yet a God who is claimed to be 100 percent perfect, good and just does such things?! WTF? Christians, seriously, how is your God any different than Hitler? Your God has killed far more people than Hitler has, according to your own Bible. He even wiped out a whole world full of people during the Flood of Noah (if you believe it that is). Have a look here at the tally sheet of the number of people God killed, according to the Bible: http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Debunk ... Page22.htm

Now, if your God is worse than Hitler, then how could you think he is 100 percent flawless, just, righteous, and good?! Are you out of your mind?! Are you completely insane?! This just goes to show how badly your mind has been hijacked to believe whatever you are told, and how your reason has been completely shut off. Basically, you believe this insanity because you were TOLD to, which makes you really gullible and naive. As Atheists like to say, you don't have to be intelligent to be a Christian. Obviously, that's true.

Anyway, the bottom line is that by worshipping a 100 percent tyrannical deity who kills and damns anyone who exercises freedom and disobeys him, it means that you yourself stand for absolute tyranny, the murder of those who do not follow your faith, and are totally anti-freedom, anti-free choice, anti-liberty, and anti-freethinking. Furthermore, the fact that you deem such a deity to be 100 percent flawless and perfect, reveals your insanity and the degree to which you've been utterly brainwashed to the extreme.

Ask yourself this: If you went into a typical Christian Bible-believing church and told the minister, "I am a born again Christian who loves Jesus, but I don't agree with everything God says in the Bible, nor do I think his actions were always right." do you think he would say, "That's ok. You don't have to agree with God on everything. Just love him and love others. That's all he wants you to do." HELL NO! The minister would give you a lecture and tell you that YOU ARE WRONG, because God is the definition of morality and whatever he does must be right, just and perfect, and that you have no right to question him because you are just a mere creation while he is the creator, blah blah blah.

All copouts again, of course, but you get the idea. To truly follow Christian teaching, you are NOT allowed to think for yourself, disagree with anything in the Bible, or have any dissenting opinion. Your opinions are worthless, according to Christianity, and you are WRONG if you don't agree with everything in the Bible and with the tenets of Christian teaching. This just goes to show exactly what I've said, that Christianity is completely anti-freethought and all about obedience, fear, tyranny and punishment. It's not something I would want to be a part of, and fortunately, I don't have to be, because there is no logical reason to believe that its extreme teachings are true, nevermind infallible.

Remember that just because someone or some book tells you something, doesn't mean it's true. See my other essay here for an elaboration on this: http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Christian_Problems.htm

You Christian denialists ought to look up the teachings of forbidden religions such as Gnosticism, which place God and Satan in opposite but more sensible roles based on their actions. (See here for an overview: http://www.theforbiddenreligion.com/gnostic-book.htm) As an example, right from the start in Genesis, when Adam and Eve ate the fruit off the Tree of Life, they did not die, but their eyes were opened, knowing both good and evil, just as the Serpent said. What this means is that God's warning that they would "surely die" by eating the fruit off that tree was a lie, while Satan's prediction was true. So how could Satan, the epitome of evil, tell the truth, while God, the epitome of goodness, truth and perfection, tell a lie?! I know you have cop outs for this, but again, you are denying the obvious. The truth is often the opposite of what we are taught.

Also, remember that there are other versions of God (or Gods) too, that don't require him to be 100 percent flawless and perfect. The Greek Gods, for example, had all the positive qualities and negative vices that humans have. And the deities in Hinduism has a mixture of good and bad traits too. The concept that God is perfect is a Judeo-Christian and Muslim creation. No one has to be perfect, not even a God. Whatever the case, the evidence suggests that we make God in OUR own image, not the other way around. That's why we project our flawed traits and egos onto him, when a perfect being shouldn't be like that.

The lesson we can learn from that is that we need to look within ourselves, for that's where the answers lie. Religion is like fast food theology. But truth is not like fast food. You cannot get truth from a convenient package or book. It requires a lifelong process of searching, going through layers and layers - for once you discover a glimpse of a certain truth, there are more layers beyond it.

The choice is yours - Either think for yourself, or let someone else do the thinking for you.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Why Christianity is 100 percent anti-freedom and pro-tyr

Postby Arouet » 17 Oct 2011, 04:53

I hate when Scepcop puts me in the position of having to defend christianity!
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Re: Why Christianity is 100 percent anti-freedom and pro-tyr

Postby Scepcop » 17 Oct 2011, 04:56

Arouet wrote:I hate when Scepcop puts me in the position of having to defend christianity!


LOL so you are so biased against me, that you will take the other side of anything I say? That undermines your credibility right there.
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Re: Why Christianity is 100 percent anti-freedom and pro-tyr

Postby Arouet » 17 Oct 2011, 05:28

Scepcop: there will be a lot that I probably agree with you about christianity and the judeo-christian god. But you take it too far. I agree that the judeo-chrisitian god is a nasty chap, but you also can't draw the conclusion that therefore christians must support any kind of tyranny. Neither does that god seem to operate (according to scripture) on a zero tolerance policy as you suggest above. Quite the opposite. Plus there are arguments as to whether the interpretation of hell like is traditionally depicted is actually justified in the bible.

Anyhow, again, I don't want to defend the bible, but there's no point in taking it beyond what it actually says.
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Re: Why Christianity is 100 percent anti-freedom and pro-tyr

Postby craig weiler » 17 Oct 2011, 05:32

LOL so you are so biased against me, that you will take the other side of anything I say? That undermines your credibility right there.


I'm not enthralled with Christianity either. I do however, live in the S.F. Bay Area and we have a minimum of religious whackjobs here. Mostly what I see of Christians are relatively sane people who take Bible stories with a grain of salt. Some of them are even good people who do good things. I think that they want the sense of belonging and community. Personally? I'm in Toastmasters for that reason.
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Re: Why Christianity is 100 percent anti-freedom and pro-tyr

Postby Arouet » 17 Oct 2011, 06:07

By the way Scepcop, you started watching Person of Interest? I think it'd be up your alley!
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Re: Why Christianity is 100 percent anti-freedom and pro-tyr

Postby Scepcop » 17 Oct 2011, 17:50

Arouet wrote:Scepcop: there will be a lot that I probably agree with you about christianity and the judeo-christian god. But you take it too far. I agree that the judeo-chrisitian god is a nasty chap, but you also can't draw the conclusion that therefore christians must support any kind of tyranny. Neither does that god seem to operate (according to scripture) on a zero tolerance policy as you suggest above. Quite the opposite. Plus there are arguments as to whether the interpretation of hell like is traditionally depicted is actually justified in the bible.

Anyhow, again, I don't want to defend the bible, but there's no point in taking it beyond what it actually says.


But wouldn't you agree that the Bible places no value at all on freedom or free choice? It's whole message throughout says, "Obey or die", doesn't it?

Why don't Christians admit that?

What verse in the Bible supports freedom and freethought?

What about Lot's wife? Wasn't she an example of getting killed by God for one little act of disobedience, such as looking back?
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Re: Why Christianity is 100 percent anti-freedom and pro-tyr

Postby Scepcop » 17 Oct 2011, 17:52

Arouet wrote:By the way Scepcop, you started watching Person of Interest? I think it'd be up your alley!


No, what is that? A TV series? Why would I like it? What does it have to do with this topic?
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Re: Why Christianity is 100 percent anti-freedom and pro-tyr

Postby Craig Browning » 17 Oct 2011, 20:14

Winston, please stop bringing butter knives to a gun fight!

On this topic you obviously have NO KNOWLEDGE, you've not done any rudimentary footwork on the subject matter. Had you done so you would recognize a handful of things, the least of which is the stark contrast between the God of the Old Testament and that found in the New let alone that found in Revelation & Daniel which is more of a reprise of the original arrogant schmuck.

The other little thing you miss is the fact that the New Testament has an instant conflict in how God is seen; that of the main character (Jesus) vs. those offered by an arrogant jerk who never met JC, actually condemned several of the Apostles and the family of Jesus as being ignorant to the actual message (Paul/Saul of Tarsus); ignoring the redundant gospels (4 different writings about the same events; mainly book reports on at least two older sources, "Mark" being the oldest) well over 35% of the New Testament is anything more than Paul trying to be Pope; his personal correspondence to this group and that and even these passages have known edits and additions sewn into them for political reasons.

Yes, the political arm of "the church", what most scholars & theology students call the "Orthodoxy" display a tyrannical face for most of the institutions history from the mid-3rd century to present (softening slightly in the 18th century forward). At the same time there were other factions that honored the teachings of Jesus, many of which were horribly persecuted by the other, yet they did live by the essence of what he taught and how he lived. . . even giving women social & clerical standing. . . a teaching that is surprisingly close to Buddhism, by the way.

I stumble over Atheist blogs & shock argument pages constantly and it never fails, most of which are exceptionally off base when it comes to their blasting the bible and churchianity; they are grossly inaccurate when it comes to what it taught, what represents what, let alone the historical & chronological factors. What we end up with is testimony of a bunch of self-professed intellects proving to the world that they don't know much of anything on the thing they oppose (imagine that!). The defeat their cause because of ignorance and their own bitterness and how it blinds them. Just like my points on how skeptics won't learn about Psychics from their side of things, so we have hot head pseudo-atheists/agnostics spouting off on something they simply know little to nothing about.

You are echoing this very same pattern. Stop being so damned lazy and actually LEARN about these things instead of going off like this.

I haven't the time to dissect your posting this morning (let alone a serious lack of desire), but if you want to be taken seriously and come off looking educated instead of being another hot head with a beef towards "God", you need to learn about the subject matter. You're not even touching on the surface here.
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Re: Why Christianity is 100 percent anti-freedom and pro-tyr

Postby ProfWag » 17 Oct 2011, 21:05

I didn't take the time to read Winston's entire lengthy post, but I will agree that there are a ton of hypocrites who claim to be Christian. Many of them, however, do believe they are doing good. I do wonder sometimes what the world would be like if we could all "Imagine there's no heaven" - John Lennon
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Re: Why Christianity is 100 percent anti-freedom and pro-tyr

Postby Arouet » 18 Oct 2011, 03:56

Scepcop wrote:
Arouet wrote:By the way Scepcop, you started watching Person of Interest? I think it'd be up your alley!


No, what is that? A TV series? Why would I like it? What does it have to do with this topic?


No, nothing to do with this thread. The premise though, is that the US government has a machine to capture every cell phone conversation, email, etc. and that they are trolling it to find terrorists. (the show's main characters then use that machine to help ordinary people) Just thought you'd like that theme!
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Re: Why Christianity is 100 percent anti-freedom and pro-tyr

Postby Craig Browning » 19 Oct 2011, 00:05

If you are a true loyal Christian, according to the Bible, then you are 100 percent pro-tyranny and anti-freedom. This is easily provable from the Bible itself. Face it. What you Christians are in denial about, is that clearly, the God depicted in your Bible is an evil tyrant who kills anyone who disobeys him, often for trivial reasons, and places ZERO value on freedom, freethought and rationality. His law demands 100 percent obedience and subservience, threatening death and damnation as a consequence for even one noncompliance, which is insane. That is crystal clear. NOTHING in the Bible supports human freedom, free choice, or independence at all! Period.


As I noted earlier, this POV really depends on which time-period and representation of GOD you’re talking about. Yes, the God of Moses (not the same as the God of Abraham, though claimed differently in Exodus) is a vengeful and arrogant God of War. If we view him from the Kabalistic point of view we find one big glaring clue as to how “evil” he actually is – his Sabbath is Saturday which, in Jewish mysticism, is the time of vengeance, manipulation & war. There is no archangel that rules over this particular day unlike the other six days of the week. When you couple this fact with the perspectives shared in the Koran and Gnostic gospels about Yahweh, it becomes crystal clear we’re talking about the biblical Satan/Lucifer far more than the Father Creator Elohim (god, or authority) [El (mighty one), Shaddai (almighty), Adonai (master), Elyon (most high), Avinu (our father)] Then again, biblical scholars did their best to conceal the fact that there is likewise a Heavenly Mother – a consort to the Creator and worshipped Goddess of the ancient Jews that’s completely side-stepped by all factions in Christianity outside certain pseudo-Gnostic groups that have surfaced in the past quarter century.

The Bible actually does speak a lot about Freedom while damning self-will gone riot; it teaches discipline and harmony but discourages obsessiveness. It likewise encourages acceptance of all regardless of race, belief, gender, and past or even economic status; the Old Testament being one of the earliest drafts towards Communal living – COMMUNISIM so to speak – kibbutz.

The “Vengeful & Damning God” reappears in Revelation and Daniel the two most prophetic books in the whole library when it comes to apocryphal scenarios. This is where we find the Day of Judgment, the destruction of the earth (by fire) and the reprise of Eden or Heaven on Earth restored. It is likewise where we find all kinds of fantasiful beasties that the fundamentalists take way out of context (if you can get them to acknowledge the idea of Unicorns and other such satanic critters being on God’s counsel). This sect of the christian world however, reads things in a literal sense, relying on the least accurate translation of the bible (King James) for the majority of their arguments. Theologians in general, understand the metaphor behind these things including the political statement being made in these books and how the prophecies deal much more with Rome and the christian plight of the first through the third century c.e. than some fantastic drama Jesus has postponed thousands of times since ascending into the heavens.

NOTE: He was originally slated to return within the lifetime of his Apostles but when that didn’t happen Paul started inventing different excuses, a practice that Rome and more specifically the protestant off-spring of Rome, have made a chief tradition. Just catch Pat Robertson and his chums wiggle out of the whole fail to show in 2000/2001 let alone the more recent Rapture dates (which weren’t a part of the original end times tradition; didn’t become such until the 19th century according to most sources)

One More Thing Before I Move On. . .
God does not actually demand total obedience if we go by what is found in Genesis; he wanted Adam & Eve to “fall” so they would have freedom of thought and will. He already had a race of beings that were robotic and strictly compliant known as Angels/Archangels and other factions of the Heavenly Hosts. The thing that Angels resent most about mankind is this Freedom to choose. Though they can disobey God, and have (according to legend) they are pre-programmed against such things and no, people don’t become Angels when they die, that’s pure bunk! Not supported anywhere in the scriptures.

What this means is that you cannot be a devout Christian and believe in freedom or free choice at the same time. And if you do, then you are a hypocrite. Your religious doctrines and Bible clearly declare that anything less than complete obedience and subservience to God's will is sin and deserves nothing less than death and damnation, according to God's law. To do what you want rather than submit to God's will is seen as rebellion and sin against God. The Bible is clear on this. What this means that by being a Christian, you stand for ABSOLUTE TYRANNY, the murder of anyone who disobeys, and are totally AGAINST freedom, free choice, independence, freethinking and reason. You can deny that all you want, but the fact is the fact.


This is typical “I’m mad at god” tripe that has no foundation or justification – PROOF that you know little to nothing about the Bible let alone the differing factions of Christianity. As I’ve said before, stop bringing a butter knife to a gun fight, it makes you look exceptionally stupid.

Throughout the Bible, one simple message is consistent: OBEY GOD OR DIE! And in the New Testament, this has been modified as: Believe or be eternally damned! There are plenty of examples in the Bible where God killed people for simple disobedience, often for trivial reasons. For example, when Lot's wife looked back at Sodom and Gomorrah burning, disobeying God, she instantly turned to salt (Genesis 19). Now really, is looking at something really worth the death penalty? Well not really, but brainwashed Christians believe that God is 100 percent just and perfect (simply because they were told so), and therefore anything he does must be completely right. It's obvious circular reasoning. And in 2 Kings 2:23-24, God sent out bears to kill 42 children after they made fun of one of his prophets.


2 Kings 2:21-24
King James Version (KJV)
21And he went forth unto the spring of the waters, and cast the salt in there, and said, Thus saith the LORD, I have healed these waters; there shall not be from thence any more death or barren land.
22So the waters were healed unto this day, according to the saying of Elisha which he spake.
23And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

24And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.


It is not God that damns these arrogant children but Elisha (a prophet & teacher). Technically he was breaking one of the Commandments (had they existed at this time) in that he misused the name of god for personal reasons a.k.a. took the lord’s name in vein. From a more rational perspective a wondering prophet might well have a couple of bears or other large beasts as companions that were trained to take care of personal problems, which is what this seems to be.

Sometimes, God even kills innocent people to their leaders in the Bible. For example, in Exodus 12, he sent an angel to kill the firstborn children of Egypt, just to punish the Pharaoh. And in 1 Chronicles 21:14, God kills 70,000 people just to punish King David. Now, is killing innocent children and people for the disobedience of their leader a moral thing to do? I don't think so. But again, brainwashed Christians believe that God is 100 percent just and perfect (with no valid basis) and so will claim that whatever he does must be right. Again, complete circular reasoning. No one who does such things would be considered a decent person in the real world, but a monster. Yet a God who is claimed to be 100 percent perfect, good and just does such things?! WTF? Christians, seriously, how is your God any different than Hitler? Your God has killed far more people than Hitler has, according to your own Bible. He even wiped out a whole world full of people during the Flood of Noah (if you believe it that is). Have a look here at the tally sheet of the number of people God killed, according to the Bible: http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Debunk ... Page22.htm


Again, you are using passages out of context. The Angel of Death mentioned in Exodus comes as the result of Pharaoh’s mockery; Moses warns him that the next plague to come to the land would be issued from the mouth of pharaoh himself and accordingly Ramses damns the first born of all Egypt. Discovering this Moses has a chat with his boss and reaches an agreement that has resulted in the observance of Passover to this very day.

Still you are not holding things in context and are cherry picking while not recognizing the differences of God in the Old Testament over the New or the fact that Adam-Abraham knew a far more benevolent sense of Divinity than what followed the deal made by Moses with Yahweh.

The issues around David and Solomon are nuts and would require far too much time and space to explain properly. What we do know is that there is absolutely no historical proof that either man ever existed and so much of what relates to their stories centers more on parable, metaphor and wisdom teachings than literal happenings. This is especially so for those that understand the more esoteric influences around the wordage the numerology being employed, etc.

Now, if your God is worse than Hitler, then how could you think he is 100 percent flawless, just, righteous, and good?! Are you out of your mind?! Are you completely insane?! This just goes to show how badly your mind has been hijacked to believe whatever you are told, and how your reason has been completely shut off. Basically, you believe this insanity because you were TOLD to, which makes you really gullible and naive. As Atheists say, you don't have to be intelligent to be a Christian. Obviously, that's true.


There’s no doubt that the Judeo-Christian factor has resulted in more death worldwide and throughout history than any other religion, government, military conquest, etc. I should point out something however; nearly every one of your examples came from the Old Testament and thus, belong more to the Jews than Christians. . . there were no Christians in the time period depicted in the Old Testament in that Jesus had yet to exist. So maybe you need to step back and actually learn a little something about what’s what here?

Anyway, the bottom line is that by worshipping a 100 percent tyrannical deity who kills and damns anyone who exercises freedom and disobeys him, it means that you yourself stand for absolute tyranny, the murder of those who do not follow your faith, and are totally anti-freedom, anti-free choice, anti-independence, and anti-freethinking. Furthermore, the fact that you deem such a deity to be 100 percent flawless and perfect, reveals your insanity and the degree to which you've been utterly brainwashed to the extreme.


Who doesn’t deem their belief system to be 100% truth? Even Atheists and Agnostics evangelize this as “fact” they are NO DIFFERENT from any other cult that wants to force the rest of the world to comply to their points of view.

Ask yourself this: If you went into a typical Christian Bible-believing church and told the minister, "I am a born again Christian who loves Jesus, but I don't agree with everything God says in the Bible, nor do I think his actions were always right." do you think he would say, "That's ok. You don't have to agree with God on everything. Just love him and love others. That's all he wants you to do." HELL NO! The minister would give you a lecture and tell you that YOU ARE WRONG, because God is the definition of morality and whatever he does must be right, just and perfect, and that you have no right to question him because you are just a mere creation while he is the creator, blah blah blah.


It depends upon the minister, his background and education level. Most honest clergymen who’ve attended the upper-crust seminaries and studied with some of the more respected theologians out there will more than likely agree with you and refer back to things I’ve already mentioned in this rebuttal – metaphor, symbolism, perspective of the time, etc. If you are speaking with a literalist such as we find in the U.S. oozing out of so many cracks & crevasses, you will find someone that will fight you and do their best to forcefully convince you to see things in another way – fear is their biggest tool alongside stigmatizing anyone that would question the bible and their own authority (of course).

. . . To truly follow Christian teaching, you are NOT allowed to think for yourself, disagree with anything in the Bible, or have any dissenting opinion. Your opinions are worthless, according to Christianity, and you are WRONG if you don't agree with everything in the Bible and with the tenets of Christian teaching. This just goes to show exactly what I've said, that Christianity is completely anti-freethought and all about obedience, fear, tyranny and punishment. It's not something I would want to be a part of, and fortunately, I don't have to be, because there is no logical reason to believe that its extreme teachings are true, nevermind infallible.


Again, more rhetoric based on opinion and not direct study. You aren’t just assuming a lot of things here Winston, you are superimposing a lot of things that are non-related. Psychologically there is a pile of anger being shown that suggest God failed to answer a prayer or something for you when you were younger – you have a huge resentment but obviously not due to analytical reasoning

Remember that just because someone or some book tells you something, doesn't mean it's true. See my other essay here for an elaboration on this: http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Christian_Problems.htm


Which means we should be leary of your thoughts and words and “truth”, does it not?

You Christian denialists ought to look up the teachings of forbidden religions such as Gnosticism, which place God and Satan in opposite but more sensible roles based on their actions. (See here for an overview: http://www.theforbiddenreligion.com/gnostic-book.htm) As an example, right from the start in Genesis, when Adam and Eve ate the fruit off the Tree of Life, they did not die, but their eyes were opened, knowing both good and evil, just as the Serpent said. What this means is that God's warning that they would "surely die" by eating the fruit off that tree was a lie, while Satan's prediction was true. So how could Satan, the epitome of evil, tell the truth, while God, the epitome of goodness, truth and perfection, tell a lie?! I know you have cop outs for this, but again, you are denying the obvious. The truth is often the opposite of what we are taught.


What do you know of Gnosticism Winston?

I am quite Gnostic in my views and at that I'm not the same flavor of Gnostic as others practice. There's more than one face to this idea, mine leans closer to the shamanic/Druidic nature of things found in Northern Italy and into Briton prior to the Roman invasions.

In some traditions it is said that the serpent was Jesus and the temptation was deliberate so that Man would learn to stand on his own two feet – to apply his freedom of will in order to learn about life and understand the cycles of nature.

Also, remember that there are other versions of God (or Gods) too, that don't require him to be 100 percent flawless and perfect. The Greek Gods, for example, had all the positive qualities and negative vices that humans have. And the deities in Hinduism has a mixture of good and bad traits too. The concept that God is perfect is a Judeo-Christian and Muslim creation. No one has to be perfect, not even a God. Whatever the case, the evidence suggests that we make God in OUR own image, not the other way around. That's why we project our flawed traits and egos onto him, when a perfect being shouldn't be like that.


Man created God in his own form and likeness. . .

This is theology 101 – If however, we take a deeper look at the descriptions of the Prophets & Mystics of old and even contemporary, we find that there are no words that allow them to fully convey what God is in that it is infinite – ALL! In other words, everyone is right.

The lesson we can learn from that is that we need to look within ourselves, for that's where the answers lie. Religion is like fast food theology. But truth is not like fast food. You cannot get truth from a convenient package or book. It requires a lifelong process of searching, going through layers and layers - for once you discover a glimpse of a certain truth, there are more layers beyond it.

The choice is yours - You either think for yourself, or let someone else do the thinking for you.


Imagine that, Jesus himself taught this very thing. He was very much against the materialistic face of religion we have today and taught a wisdom that closely mirrors Buddhism with a hint of Jewish mysticism tossed in for the sake of personalizing it and making it a kind of restoration of the Jewish mysteries. He was torn over how the clergy of the temple had bastardized the teachings of the prophets for the sake of profits and living the high life. I can assure you, if he does show back up there’s going to be many an Evangelists getting their ass handed to them for being false teachers.

I can see both, your anger and your passion here Winston, but you need to refine things and narrow down your views. You’re using a very wide paintbrush and not able to express detail; using the palate supplied by others rather than learning and thinking for yourself. Please, wake up and step out of that cycle – this habit – it’s making you look like an utter fool.
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Re: Why Christianity is 100 Percent Anti-Freedom and Pro-Tyr

Postby Tanya » 05 Jul 2012, 21:12

Hi everybody. Allow me to introduce myself - Tanya Simmonds, full time novelist and qualified academic theologian (B(th)(hons). As much as you will loathe me for saying this with all of your loving Christian hatred, Scepcop has it pretty much nailed down to the letter. This is also evidenced by the lack of any serious arguments against him beyond 'You don't know what you're talking about" and relentless songs and dances about the Gnostic interpretation and various other versions of this Bronze Age deity. NONE OF THIS is relevant, because the statement made by Scepcop had no connection to any of that. His focus was PURELY on the Bible as it appears in bookstores today.

What many of you must accept is that the Bible was finally compiled in the form we have it today be the Council of Nicea in 325 AD and the bottom line was that it is INERRENT! If that is the case, and this book is the foundation of your belief in a God, you cannot start to do tapdances around it with unfounded, nonsense phrases such as, "It doesn't quite mean that," and "You're taking it out of context." It says what it says, and no matter how much you don't like what it says, that doesn't give any of you licence to insult the one who brings these things to your attention. Please give me a valid, clear (remember, the Bible is supposed to be for the whomsoever: the wise and the simple) and relevant argument to defend passages such as Psalm 137: 9, Isaiah 13:16 and Hosea 13:16 (God ordering that all infants of his enemy must be smashed to death against rocks and that all pregnant women must be cut open and their babes torn from their wombs.) How about Numbers 31:18, 2 Samuel 12:11-14 and Zechariah 14:2 where God demands the rape of innocent girls either as a punishment to their disobedient husbands or as the spoils of war?

Jesus changed all of that? BULLSHIT! Jesus WAS God (John 1:1) He also stated that all of the laws of the Jewish Bible would remain for ALL TIME. These would include the laws that homosexuals, unruly children, anybody who eats shellfish or collects sticks on the Sabbath must be bludgeoned to death with rocks, along with the acceptable price lists for slaves and the conditions by which it is acceptable to beat them to death (Exodus 21:20-21.) Jesus asserted these things in Matthew 5:17-18, close to the beginning of the Sermon on the Mount! You may wish to check it out.

So you see, the Bible is savage, barbaric, sadistic, unreasonable and typical of the time and place in which it was written - and I haven't even mentioned the idea of torturing people eternally for failing to believe absurdities during a FINITE life.

Indeed, the Bible is astonishingly immoral and endorses the most terrible of cruelties. All such things are permissible in its pages - just so long as you don't masturbate!

Come on - hit me with it. I'm waiting...

Tanya x
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Re: Why Christianity is 100 Percent Anti-Freedom and Pro-Tyr

Postby Arouet » 05 Jul 2012, 23:36

Tanya wrote:So you see, the Bible is savage, barbaric, sadistic, unreasonable and typical of the time and place in which it was written - and I haven't even mentioned the idea of torturing people eternally for failing to believe absurdities during a FINITE life.

Indeed, the Bible is astonishingly immoral and endorses the most terrible of cruelties. All such things are permissible in its pages - just so long as you don't masturbate!

Come on - hit me with it. I'm waiting...

Tanya x


I think pretty much everyone here agrees with that. Moreover, I don't think there are any practicing christians on this board.

My objection to scepcop was that he went too far in his conclusions about what practicing christians believe with regard to political freedoms.

Welcome to the forum!
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Re: Why Christianity is 100 Percent Anti-Freedom and Pro-Tyr

Postby Tanya » 06 Jul 2012, 00:26

Hi Arouet

I must say that, prima facie, it did seem that Scepcop was in the firing line of a bunch of Christian, fundamentalist, terrorist, sadists! There seemed to be a great deal of going out of their way to discredit the guy without having a great deal to back up their positions other than, 'we don't like the sound of that.'

For what it's worth, I don't think he went too far at all! The Bible IS totalitarian, in every conceivable way. It's 'Follow the way, or go to Hell.' You can't get more totalitarian than that. Even Hitler didn't go that far! Christians profess to follow the Bible, ergo - do the math. If they're not following the foundation point of their faith, what exactly are they following? Are you suggesting that they don't really think about what it is that they're supposed to be following? It is a fact that 90% of Christians have never read the Bible - in which case, they're not really Christians. I dare say that if the majority of Christians knew what sick, demented crap was written in their holy book, they would be horrified. There are, of course, those who do follow it to the letter and when they do, they are reviled by all - (the Phelps family of Topeka, Kansas, for example.)

Bottom line - you can be a Bible-believing Christian and be a monster, or you can be a decent, moral and worthy contributor to society who simply assumes the label 'Christian' without really knowing what it means. But you can't be both...

Tanya
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