View Active Topics          Latest 100 Topics          View Your Posts          Switch to Mobile

Where is the Ark of the New Covenant?

Discussions Religion and Theology, Scriptures, Bible Debate, etc.

Where is the Ark of the New Covenant?

Postby Ben Masada » 06 Sep 2011, 00:51

Where is the Ark of the Covenant?

The most important person as far as the Ark of the Covenant was concerned was Moses, who had it built to contain the stones with the commandments carved on them, which he had brought down from the Mountain, and kept as a sacred relic in the tabernacle built for the purpose to keep the Ark in it through the crossing of the desert for 40 years.

There was nothing Moses wanted the most than to see "his" Ark in a sumptuous Temple built for it in the Holy Land. He wouldn't because he had to die before the People crossed the Jordan into the Holy Land.

Then, the Law, the most precious content of the Ark became a sysnonym with Moses himself, as Jesus himself was reminded of as he proposed the parable of the Richman and Lazarus, that if the relatives of the Richman in hell did not listen to Moses, i.e. the Law, even if one was raised from the dead, nothing would prevent them from ending themselves up in hell. (Luke 16:29-31)

Now, when the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem, the Ark of the Covenant was no longer in the Temple. What could be the most logical thought to come to mind? That the Prophet of the time, Jeremiah, must have had a vision that the end had arrived for the Temple, and that he should do the only right thing that was supposed to be done, which would be to return the Ark to Moses.

Between Jericho and Jordan there is a great mountain called Nebo, whose highest spot was the top of Pisgah, wherefrom, Moses was allowed to contemplate the Holy Land that he was not allowed to enter. There, on the Mountain Nebo at the top of Pisgah, Moses was to die and be buried. Whoever buried him must have kept the secret till death, because up to this day nobody knows the place of his sepucher. That's where Jeremiah took the Ark of the Covenant to. He must have had a vision about the place and buried the Ark where Moses was supposed to be. That's where Jeremiah hid the Ark of the Covenant: In the hidden sepulcher of Moses. (Deut. 34:1-6)

In conclusion to this thread, if you compare Deuteronomy 34:1,6 to Jeremiah 3:16 the verbiage Jeremiah uses follows the same pathern to the secrecy stipulated with reference to the sepulcher of Moses, to be kept out of the popular attention. I see here an extra evidence that Jeremiah, by means of perhaps a vision, had found out the hiding place, added to it the Ark of the Covenant and perpetuated the secrecy. None was supposed to know or even remember that one ever existed.
Ben
User avatar
Ben Masada
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 06 Sep 2011, 00:04






Re: Where is the Ark of the New Covenant?

Postby Craig Browning » 06 Sep 2011, 02:26

Where is the Ark of the Covenant?


The most important person as far as the Ark of the Covenant was concerned was Moses, who had it built to contain the stones with the commandments carved on them, which he had brought down from the Mountain, and kept as a sacred relic in the tabernacle built for the purpose to keep the Ark in it through the crossing of the desert for 40 years.


This is a huge misconception, the actual cabinet may have carried the tablets but what is more important is that it carried the “contract” – the agreement between Yahweh and Moses who basically forced “Israel” to accept the terms and of course, ignore the fine print. If you actually study Leviticus and parts of Exodus when it comes to the Law & Covenant it would remind you of Mr. Webster’s negotiations with the Devil himself. The bottom line being that this excommunicated Prince of Egypt used his knowledge of the temple rites and “magick” as a way to build his own “empire”. . . so to speak. Then again, a closer study of the Old Testament reveals that Moses was working a deal with someone that simply claimed to be from Nigeria. . .


Then, the Law, the most precious content of the Ark became a sysnonym with Moses himself, as Jesus himself was reminded of as he proposed the parable of the Richman and Lazarus, that if the relatives of the Richman in hell did not listen to Moses, i.e. the Law, even if one was raised from the dead, nothing would prevent them from ending themselves up in hell. (Luke 16:29-31)


Nice try but no banana!

To this day you can’t find Christian, Jew or Muslim capable of living by the law in the manner outlined in the book of the law. Every single one of the Abrahamic faiths have more loop-holes and arguments for ignoring, twisting and stepping around the requisites than most nations have people. The “Law” is merely a baton with which to subdue and impose one’s ideology onto others under the excuse (illusion) of faith; it is dogmacy, nothing other.

I should probably point out that your reference also shows how arrogant and vindictive this God of the Moses was/is – he was a resentful bigot that demanded that everyone bow down and kiss his glowing hinny, which simply wasn’t going to be the long-term and prudent way things were going to be. So much so that people openly objected and challenged said standards and just as we found in the days of Martin Luther and the break-up of the Roman Church’s encompassing influence on society, so we find the same surrounding much of the events mentioned in the Old Testament; acts of general war, genocide, pillaging, and general mayhem done in the name of God simply because a certain group wouldn’t acknowledge that god or worse, said God saw these people (races) as an abomination (a mistake on his part, you might say) and ordered them slain – the Old Testament is rife with such adventures which can only make we that believe in Karma, chuckle a bit as we hear Jews whining over being “persecuted”. . . they seem to have ignored that part of the Prophet’s warnings and how things come back to roost.


Now, when the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem, the Ark of the Covenant was no longer in the Temple. What could be the most logical thought to come to mind? That the Prophet of the time, Jeremiah, must have had a vision that the end had arrived for the Temple, and that he should do the only right thing that was supposed to be done, which would be to return the Ark to Moses.

Between Jericho and Jordan there is a great mountain called Nebo, whose highest spot was the top of Pisgah, wherefrom, Moses was allowed to contemplate the Holy Land that he was not allowed to enter. There, on the Mountain Nebo at the top of Pisgah, Moses was to die and be buried. Whoever buried him must have kept the secret till death, because up to this day nobody knows the place of his sepulcher. That's where Jeremiah took the Ark of the Covenant to. He must have had a vision about the place and buried the Ark where Moses was supposed to be. That's where Jeremiah hid the Ark of the Covenant: In the hidden sepulcher of Moses. (Deut. 34:1-6)

In conclusion to this thread, if you compare Deuteronomy 34:1,6 to Jeremiah 3:16 the verbiage Jeremiah uses follows the same pattern to the secrecy stipulated with reference to the sepulcher of Moses, to be kept out of the popular attention. I see here an extra evidence that Jeremiah, by means of perhaps a vision, had found out the hiding place, added to it the Ark of the Covenant and perpetuated the secrecy. None was supposed to know or even remember that one ever existed.


Interesting theory, especially given the convenient “vision” as a way to gain knowledge of something seemingly unknown and unknowable; however, clerical tradition in ancient Judaism involved the passing of certain sacred knowledge to a limited number of initiates in each generation. According to tradition this knowledge including the proper pronunciation of “god’s” actual name and how to use it in specific rituals and how it could manifest different things based on how it was intoned; other secrets including what we would today call the Kabbalah and Sefer Yetzerah as well as little things such as where Moses, Abraham and other Patriarchs/Matriarchs of the faith were buried (even certain treasures & regalia)

The two most solid theories on this Ark and its whereabouts are based on both, legend and anthropological clues;

Beneath the Temple Mount is one of the leading theories based on the explorations of certain Jewish and Islamic archeologists and a handful of Christian counterparts. This is a controversial theory in that it has strong political complications. Nonetheless, it is viewed as one of the more viable scenarios. . . the Ark was saved from looters by way of a secret drop-trap and “vault” in which the casket drops from its place in the Holy of Holies into a “well” (for lack of a better description) on top of which a few tons of sand flows in. This is classic Egyptian tomb trap thinking that Jewish craftsmen would know because of their on-going role in the world as temple builders & architects.

The Axum Temple in Ethiopia is the other, heavily supported (by archeology & tradition) theory, which places the Ark as well as a unique group of Jewish traditionalists far from the Holy Lands. There is (limited) tangible proof as well as folklore that follows a very specific path from Babylon to Axum. The other tattle-tale are the rituals and views held by the “Jewish” settlers along this path; perspectives and rites common to the era vs. those that changed during the various stages of Israel’s transformation (much has changed).

My Question is, “Why is it relevant?”

Why is knowing where the Ark lays or if it even exist, so important to everyone?

I know why “science” would love to find it given the various experiments that have been done and the related results. I can understand it from an Archaeological point of view, in that it is one of the great articles of antiquity. But there is a political agenda tied to this “discovery” as well, one that is just as codependent on proving Noah’s Ark rests somewhere in Turkey’s mountain ranges or showing that the Turin Shroud is 100% authentic. . . in other words, the Abrahamic faiths require such things in order to prove their claims; seems they don’t have much of anything of substance when it comes to proving their claimed history, one way or the other.

The other element when it comes to the politics around the Ark is POWER… the idea that whoever has the ark and “carries it before them” will always be the triumphant a.k.a. the side god will stand with and literally empower during times of conflict.

I personally favor the Axum location but likewise question it, given this government’s capabilities when it comes to surveillance and how easy it would be to investigate the chapel without any act of physical trespass; we could at least identify any metallic or stone object in the room, its size and more than likely, the metallurgic composition of it which would basically give “us” sufficient data to go on when it comes to Ark theories and where one might wish to go should all out Jihad happen. . . we’ve not done this yet (supposedly) so who knows?

I do doubt that it went to Scotland and I’m even more confident that it didn’t make it to the U.S./North America. If it still exists, and it may, I’m betting that one of these two theories will prove to be correct.
User avatar
Craig Browning
 
Posts: 1526
Joined: 13 Feb 2010, 05:20
Location: Northampton, MA

Re: Where is the Ark of the New Covenant?

Postby ProfWag » 06 Sep 2011, 04:47

And speaking of the Ten Commandments, just what are they? There are 3 different versions, ya' know...
And that brings me to a joke, if you don't mind. A young priest was about to give his first sermon so he asked his elder for some advice. The senior priest told him he always took a shot of whiskey beforehand which helped calm his nerves. Well, the young priest was pretty nervous so he took a few more than he probably should have. After the sermon, the young priest asked how he did. The elder told him he did fine, but he had a few criticisms. "First, there are 10 Commandments, not 12. There were 12 apostles, not 10. We should not refer to the Lord Jesus Christ as 'the Late J.C.' You shouldn't call the Holy Cross as 'The Big T." David slew Goliath, he did not 'kick the sh!t out of him." You should not refer to the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost as 'Big Daddy, Junior, and The Spook.' Jacob wagered his donkey, he did not 'bet his ass.' Finally, when Jesus broke bread at the Last Supper, he did not say "eat me!" (or something like that...)
User avatar
ProfWag
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 03:54

Re: Where is the Ark of the New Covenant?

Postby Ben Masada » 06 Sep 2011, 04:51

Craig Browning wrote:Where is the Ark of the Covenant?

Then again, a closer study of the Old Testament reveals that Moses was working a deal with someone that simply claimed to be from Nigeria.


Without the proper quotations to verify your assersions, I have nohow to repry to your post.

Nice try but no banana!


That's exactly what has come to mind with regards to your refutations.

To this day you can’t find Christian, Jew or Muslim capable of living by the law in the manner outlined in the book of the law. Every single one of the Abrahamic faiths have more loop-holes and arguments for ignoring, twisting and stepping around the requisites than most nations have people. The “Law” is merely a baton with which to subdue and impose one’s ideology onto others under the excuse (illusion) of faith; it is dogmacy, nothing other.


So, what do you suggest, to forget all about what the book says because some crooks used it to exploit the religious feelings of the naive ones?

I should probably point out that your reference also shows how arrogant and vindictive this God of the Moses was/is – he was a resentful bigot that demanded that everyone bow down and kiss his glowing hinny, which simply wasn’t going to be the long-term and prudent way things were going to be. So much so that people openly objected and challenged said standards and just as we found in the days of Martin Luther and the break-up of the Roman Church’s encompassing influence on society, so we find the same surrounding much of the events mentioned in the Old Testament; acts of general war, genocide, pillaging, and general mayhem done in the name of God simply because a certain group wouldn’t acknowledge that god or worse, said God saw these people (races) as an abomination (a mistake on his part, you might say) and ordered them slain – the Old Testament is rife with such adventures which can only make we that believe in Karma, chuckle a bit as we hear Jews whining over being “persecuted”. . . they seem to have ignored that part of the Prophet’s warnings and how things come back to roost.


Now, you are talking about some kind of anthropomorphic god that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. And again the Jews, who intead of sticking to their
fate keep whining. What does it have to do with God? This is their waay to remind the past so that it won't repeat in the future.

Interesting theory, especially given the convenient “vision” as a way to gain knowledge of something seemingly unknown and unknowable; however, clerical tradition in ancient Judaism involved the passing of certain sacred knowledge to a limited number of initiates in each generation. According to tradition this knowledge including the proper pronunciation of “god’s” actual name and how to use it in specific rituals and how it could manifest different things based on how it was intoned; other secrets including what we would today call the Kabbalah and Sefer Yetzerah as well as little things such as where Moses, Abraham and other Patriarchs/Matriarchs of the faith were buried (even certain treasures & regalia)


It just happens that the "covenient vision" was the method, according to the writer of Numbers 12:6, to describe the way God makes Himself known and communicate His intentions to the prophets. Don't all religions have their own way communicate their little secrets?

The two most solid theories on this Ark and its whereabouts are based on both, legend and anthropological clues;


Don't all religiouns have their own legends? You won't find a religion without them. Who has more theories than atheists? Nevertheless they believe them without hope that they will turn into facts.

]Beneath the Temple Mount is one of the leading theories based on the explorations of certain Jewish and Islamic archeologists and a handful of Christian counterparts. This is a controversial theory in that it has strong political complications. Nonetheless, it is viewed as one of the more viable scenarios. . . the Ark was saved from looters by way of a secret drop-trap and “vault” in which the casket drops from its place in the Holy of Holies into a “well” (for lack of a better description) on top of which a few tons of sand flows in. This is classic Egyptian tomb trap thinking that Jewish craftsmen would know because of their on-going role in the world as temple builders & architects.


Oh! I thought you were talking about the Ark of the Covenant, but classic Egyptian tombs!

The Axum Temple in Ethiopia is the other, heavily supported (by archeology & tradition) theory, which places the Ark as well as a unique group of Jewish traditionalists far from the Holy Lands. There is (limited) tangible proof as well as folklore that follows a very specific path from Babylon to Axum. The other tattle-tale are the rituals and views held by the “Jewish” settlers along this path; perspectives and rites common to the era vs. those that changed during the various stages of Israel’s transformation (much has changed).


All these places have explored and the only thing they reveal is the truth about Jeremiah 3:16. That the idea to find the Ark of the Covenant would be disguised by going arounds everywhere else in order to take man's mind from the place where it is found.

My Question is, “Why is it relevant?”


To us it is relevant to prove the veracity of the Scriptures.

Why is knowing where the Ark lays or if it even exist, so important to everyone?


To others, I wonder why it would be so important. To us, it would be perhaps a way to rebuild our Temple and have it returned to it. Can you imagine the political impact?

I know why “science” would love to find it given the various experiments that have been done and the related results. I can understand it from an Archaeological point of view, in that it is one of the great articles of antiquity. But there is a political agenda tied to this “discovery” as well, one that is just as codependent on proving Noah’s Ark rests somewhere in Turkey’s mountain ranges or showing that the Turin Shroud is 100% authentic. . . in other words, the Abrahamic faiths require such things in order to prove their claims; seems they don’t have much of anything of substance when it comes to proving their claimed history, one way or the other.


Theological, Archaeological and politically, to us, the finding of the Ark of the Covenant would perhaps be the key to have our Temple back.

The other element when it comes to the politics around the Ark is POWER… the idea that whoever has the ark and “carries it before them” will always be the triumphant a.k.a. the side god will stand with and literally empower during times of conflict.


In a way, I could agree with you on that one.

I personally favor the Axum location but likewise question it, given this government’s capabilities when it comes to surveillance and how easy it would be to investigate the chapel without any act of physical trespass; we could at least identify any metallic or stone object in the room, its size and more than likely, the metallurgic composition of it which would basically give “us” sufficient data to go on when it comes to Ark theories and where one might wish to go should all out Jihad happen. . . we’ve not done this yet (supposedly) so who knows?


If it was at Axum, it would be easy for Israel to get it. But, according to Scholars, what have been found are only fake replacements of the real thing.

I do doubt that it went to Scotland and I’m even more confident that it didn’t make it to the U.S./North America. If it still exists, and it may, I’m betting that one of these two theories will prove to be correct.


If it still exists, there is no better place than where the builder of the Ark is buried: Mt. Nebo.
User avatar
Ben Masada
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 06 Sep 2011, 00:04

Re: Where is the Ark of the New Covenant?

Postby ProfWag » 06 Sep 2011, 05:54

Ben Masada wrote:If it still exists, there is no better place than where the builder of the Ark is buried: Mt. Nebo.

Or, more accurately, "If it ever existed..."
User avatar
ProfWag
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 03:54

Re: Where is the Ark of the New Covenant?

Postby Ben Masada » 07 Sep 2011, 12:22

ProfWag wrote:
Ben Masada wrote:If it still exists, there is no better place than where the builder of the Ark is buried: Mt. Nebo.

Or, more accurately, "If it ever existed..."


Do you believe that Socrates existed? Plato wrote so much about him. Do you believe that Einstein existed? I am sure you would say "yes". Can you prove it?
Do you believe Jesus ever existed? Well, a lot has been written about him. Nobody is sure about anything in this world. Do you believe yourself exist? You could be a personage in the dream of someone else. And so on and on.
Ben
User avatar
Ben Masada
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 06 Sep 2011, 00:04

Re: Where is the Ark of the New Covenant?

Postby ProfWag » 07 Sep 2011, 18:40

Ben Masada wrote:
ProfWag wrote:
Ben Masada wrote:If it still exists, there is no better place than where the builder of the Ark is buried: Mt. Nebo.

Or, more accurately, "If it ever existed..."


Do you believe that Socrates existed? Plato wrote so much about him. Do you believe that Einstein existed? I am sure you would say "yes". Can you prove it?
Do you believe Jesus ever existed? Well, a lot has been written about him. Nobody is sure about anything in this world. Do you believe yourself exist? You could be a personage in the dream of someone else. And so on and on.
Ben

I didn't ask you to prove it Ben, as I know that would not be possible. I simply wanted to point out that there is no archaeological evidence for its existance. There is, however, ample evidence that Einstein existed...
User avatar
ProfWag
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 03:54

Re: Where is the Ark of the New Covenant?

Postby Elhardt » 08 Sep 2011, 02:44

The Ark of the Covenant is believed to be located in a temple in Ethiopia. There have been books and documentaries that have traced it to that location.
User avatar
Elhardt
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 26 Jul 2011, 10:34

Re: Where is the Ark of the New Covenant?

Postby Ben Masada » 08 Sep 2011, 02:58

Elhardt wrote:The Ark of the Covenant is believed to be located in a temple in Ethiopia. There have been books and documentaries that have traced it to that location.


What there is in Ethiopia is a fake similitude of the real Ark of the Covenant. Solomon would never have permitted to remove the Ark from the Temple and send it to Ethiopia. That was a time that there was no problem with Israel from any nation in the world. It was a time of peace. There was no reason why Israel would want to remove the Ark to any other safer place than Israel itself. Perhaps you mean that there have been books and documentaries that have traced seekers to other locations aways from it.
User avatar
Ben Masada
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 06 Sep 2011, 00:04

Re: Where is the Ark of the New Covenant?

Postby ProfWag » 08 Sep 2011, 04:02

Ben Masada wrote:
Elhardt wrote:The Ark of the Covenant is believed to be located in a temple in Ethiopia. There have been books and documentaries that have traced it to that location.


What there is in Ethiopia is a fake similitude of the real Ark of the Covenant. Solomon would never have permitted to remove the Ark from the Temple and send it to Ethiopia. That was a time that there was no problem with Israel from any nation in the world. It was a time of peace. There was no reason why Israel would want to remove the Ark to any other safer place than Israel itself. Perhaps you mean that there have been books and documentaries that have traced seekers to other locations aways from it.

Actually, perhaps one of the strongest theories on the fate of the Ark is Ethiopia. If memory serves me, the story goes that Herb Melnik (for you 2 and1/2 fans ) snuck it out under Soloman's nose while he was fornicating with the Queen of Sheba, Melnik's mother...
User avatar
ProfWag
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 03:54

Re: Where is the Ark of the New Covenant?

Postby Craig Browning » 09 Sep 2011, 05:01

ProfWag wrote:
Ben Masada wrote:
Elhardt wrote:The Ark of the Covenant is believed to be located in a temple in Ethiopia. There have been books and documentaries that have traced it to that location.


What there is in Ethiopia is a fake similitude of the real Ark of the Covenant. Solomon would never have permitted to remove the Ark from the Temple and send it to Ethiopia. That was a time that there was no problem with Israel from any nation in the world. It was a time of peace. There was no reason why Israel would want to remove the Ark to any other safer place than Israel itself. Perhaps you mean that there have been books and documentaries that have traced seekers to other locations aways from it.

Actually, perhaps one of the strongest theories on the fate of the Ark is Ethiopia. If memory serves me, the story goes that Herb Melnik (for you 2 and1/2 fans ) snuck it out under Soloman's nose while he was fornicating with the Queen of Sheba, Melnik's mother...



Not quite :lol:

Solomon was in love with the Queen and they had a child. To show his trust and devotion to the Queen and their son, he sent the Ark to Ethiopia as a kind of "seal" for their unspoken and technically "forbidden" situation -- in other words, politics was blocking them from sealing the deal on the official front; primarily the fear of the Priests that this outside (the off-spring) would be allowed to take Solomon's throne.

Somewhere in the legend materials, there's a military type conflict but I don't recall the precise details. What is known is that a trail can be followed down the Nile by way of legend, local lore and actual artifacts that support them. We know that the clergy surrounding this temple, even though they claim a "christian" label, are privy to certain "lost" Hebrew temple rites -- Rituals that they do perform and that can likewise be traced to the time of Solomon and the observations that are to be made in regards to the Ark. We also know that at least two other villages mirror these traditions, both being along the path taken by the "Prince" upon his return home to mum with the treasures and Solomon's offerings of honor, loyalty, etc.

So I don't think "theft" is involved in this particular case. There is a story of theft tied to the Ark that actually involves Moses, his access to the Egyptian Temples and where the Ark as well as the "Ten Commandments" actually came from, but there is little in way of proof to support more than a questionable theory. . . then again, there's next to no proof that Moses ever existed and his whole tale is based on a far older Babylonian tale about Misus (sp?), a legend that's nearly word for word the same as Moses. . . not that the Jews or latter Christians would rewrite and personalize such things :roll:
User avatar
Craig Browning
 
Posts: 1526
Joined: 13 Feb 2010, 05:20
Location: Northampton, MA


Return to Religion / Theology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest