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Ross Gunn III, my Youth Pastor in 1987

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Ross Gunn III, my Youth Pastor in 1987

Postby Scepcop » 13 May 2010, 01:55

Hi all,
While writing a new section of my biography about a debate I had with my Youth Pastor back in 1987, I googled his name, Ross Gunn III, and found his website. He is now a sex addiction counselor. Check out his bio here:

http://www.skyviewcounseling.com/PAGES/ ... selor.html

And even though it's been so many years, he still has the exact same beliefs as he did before. Check out how fanatical he is:

http://www.skyviewcounseling.com/PAGES/ ... selor.html

In Man & Woman

1) Man and woman were both created in God’s image and likeness in order to reflect God's heart and character in their lives and in their relationships.
2) Man and woman were both created as a trichotomy having a Spirit, Soul {mind, emotions, will} & Body. (Gen. 2:7; Luke 2:52; I Thess. 5:23; Heb. 4:12.)
3) Adam and Eve’s sin originally effected and corrupted the whole human race. Thus separating sinful man and mankind from the holy God.
4) But because of Christ dying on the cross for our sins, we now have the choice to either accept God’s gift by faith or reject it. As a result of this choice man will either live eternally with God in heaven or eternally apart from God in hell.
5) Although biologically different in many ways, God loves and values both men and women equally. Although men and women often have different roles and responsibilities God loves and values them both while holding them responsible for their gifts, talents and skills.
6) Because the LORD GOD deeply loves us, He will discipline us when we are in sin or are rebellious.
7) Man and woman's primary purpose is to love God with all of our heart, soul and strength and to love to ourselves (in a humble, healthy way) our Bride (or husband), our children and those around us.

(Gen. 1:26-27; 2:7; Matt. 25: 14-30; Lk. 10:27; Rom. 3:10-19; 5:12-14; Gal. 3:28; Eph. 2:1-3; 5:22-33; Heb.12:3-11; Rev. 20: 11-15)


I wonder if I should I contact him to show him my Christian deconversion story and debunking Christian arguments page? He'd probably be ticked.

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Christian_Story.htm

Ironically, he also moved to Nevada and Washington after living in California, like I did.

I've become a totally different person than I was when I knew him. Yet he is the same it seems. It would still be nice to say hi to see if he remembers me though. We probably wouldn't have anything in common though except that we both view society as sick and dysfunctional (and "sinful" too in his case).

Anyhow, here is the narrative I wrote about me challenging him to a debate about Christian doctrine when I was 14 back in 1987:

--------------------------------------------------

At an early age, Wu demonstrated a propensity to challenge authority in the name of truth.

When he was 14, he beat his Youth Pastor in a debate over free will vs. election/predestination in the role of Salvation in the Bible.

Annoyed that the whole church was teaching freewill salvation which was not supported by the Bible, Wu brought a long list of Bible verses he wrote down, along with a summary, which supported the doctrine of election and predestination, to discuss with his Youth Pastor, who took him into his private office. When Wu presented the verses and arguments, his Pastor became annoyed and then changed the subject by drilling Wu on whether the Bible taught that man was composed of body, spirit and soul, or just body and soul. When Wu gave his answer and tried to return to the topic, he jumped on it by saying that he was wrong and that Wu was not qualified to be debating Bible doctrine.

It was clear that Wu’s Pastor was unable to address the verses and arguments that Wu brought, and unable to defend his freewill Salvation doctrine against it, for he was unprepared and untrained in such areas. So he attempted to discredit Wu with a cheap diversionary shot to protect his ego and position of power, since in his view, Wu was out of line. How dare a youth challenge a Youth Pastor!

But technically, the Youth Pastor lost the debate by not being able to address or refute ANY of Wu's Bible verses that supported election/predestination in the Bible. Instead, he put Wu back in line with his dominating personality and authority for challenging him. Probably he was taken aback that a teenage Christian youth would try to correct him on Biblical doctrines, something he had never anticipated or experienced before.

Though Wu knew that what he did was disruptive to the harmony between youth and Youth Pastor, deep down he felt that truth and accuracy were more important than harmonious relationships. And possessing a keen intellect, Wu was annoyed by contradictions and discrepancies.

Likewise, when he was 19, Wu went to a Presbyterian Chinese Church in Fremont, CA. After the sermon, Wu went up to the pastor outside and asked him:

- "John Calvin, the founder of your church, taught that Predestination and Election determined Salvation, not free will. So why do you teach Salvation by free will then?"

- "Also, in the Bible, Paul in 1st Corinthians clearly said that women are to be silent in the church. So why do you let women make speeches during your church services?"

The Pastor became annoyed then asked him whether he had sold all his possessions as the first Christians were commanded to in the Book of Acts. Then he gave a long loud spiel about consistency in the Bible, and not taking things out of context, asserting his authority as well.

When Wu told the girl who drove him to the church about what happened, she said, "Wow he was probably surprised that a teen would challenge him on Bible stuff."
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: I found my Youth Pastor that I debated when I was 14!

Postby Scepcop » 13 May 2010, 02:02

Btw, in Ross Gunn's bio:

http://www.skyviewcounseling.com/PAGES/ ... selor.html

PERSONAL

• Ross has lived most of his life on the West Coast in California. He, his Bride and family have also lived in Hawaii, Nevada, Oregon and now Washington.
• Ross has been in love with his Bride for over 30 years. They have two wonderful, gifted and Godly children.
• Received Christ in November of 1967 in the back of a VW bus.
• Spiritual Gifts are Pastor/Teacher and Exhortation.
• Enjoys most sports - especially football, volleyball and stunt kite flying.
• Ross has a heart to see men grow and develop into strong men of God. Men whose lives reflect the image and likeness of Christ in integrity and truth. He desires to see these men cherish their Bride and their children while impacting their world for Christ.


I still remember that he often told us the story of how he became saved, which he listed above. After a youth of sin, sex and drugs, he heard the Gospel and then in the back of a VW bus (as he mentions above) he felt convicted by the Holy Spirit. So he asked God, "God, if the Gospel I heard is true and you're for real, then make the next car that passes by a (specific make, color and model, I forget what it was)". Then, when that exact vehicle in the color he said passed by on the road at the next moment, he accepted Christ and became born again. And that's how his ministry got started back in 1967.

That's an interesting testimonial. And I'm sure there are plenty of others like it.

I knew him as someone who was 100 percent convinced and serious about his beliefs. His eyes and face were dead serious whenever he talked about Christ and his faith. He had an ability to make someone feel guilty and convicted just by looking at them. I guess that's what makes an effective Pastor?

I do miss the fun youth camps he took us to back in the 80's. There was fellowship, fun, nice friendly accepting inclusive people, etc. It was the exact opposite from the cold, shallow persecutory teens I had to endure in high school back then. So it was a much needed "salvation" from them for me. And the fact that the teens in my youth groups were so much friendlier than in the normal world, also seemed to validate our black and white view that the rest of the world was lost in sin and darkness, and that we were the only ones who were "saved" by God. It was a very extreme black and white view, but it made me feel special and gave me something to believe in during my hellish teenage years of chaos and insecurity.

But maybe what I really miss is being young and innocent again.

I heard that there is something in psychology that says that we tend to remember the past as better than it actually was.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: I found my Youth Pastor that I debated when I was 14!

Postby ProfWag » 13 May 2010, 02:51

This sounded like the alter-ego of David Mabus.
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Re: I found my Youth Pastor that I debated when I was 14!

Postby Scepcop » 13 May 2010, 03:14

ProfWag wrote:This sounded like the alter-ego of David Mabus.


Who is that? What was he about?
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: I found my Youth Pastor that I debated when I was 14!

Postby NinjaPuppy » 13 May 2010, 03:19

Scepcop wrote:
ProfWag wrote:This sounded like the alter-ego of David Mabus.


Who is that? What was he about?

David Mabus is our own personal spammer here on the Forum. Right now he is currently enjoying posting his drivel under the 'subject title' of BOOBQUAKE.

I usually delete one or two of his pieces of anti-atheist garbage daily.

Since I usually delete them in a timely manner, most members don't see his garbage. Eteponge usually finds his late night ramblings and does the same. Google up his name if you want to really know how disturbed this Mabus-guy is.
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Re: I found my Youth Pastor that I debated when I was 14!

Postby ProfWag » 13 May 2010, 03:41

The more I think about it, that was probably a mean comment I made considering Mabus' rants. I guess I'm just ready to move on to other things than religion. Sorry for the post.
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Re: I found my Youth Pastor that I debated when I was 14!

Postby Scepcop » 13 May 2010, 19:27

NinjaPuppy wrote:
Scepcop wrote:
ProfWag wrote:This sounded like the alter-ego of David Mabus.


Who is that? What was he about?

David Mabus is our own personal spammer here on the Forum. Right now he is currently enjoying posting his drivel under the 'subject title' of BOOBQUAKE.

I usually delete one or two of his pieces of anti-atheist garbage daily.

Since I usually delete them in a timely manner, most members don't see his garbage. Eteponge usually finds his late night ramblings and does the same. Google up his name if you want to really know how disturbed this Mabus-guy is.


Why don't you just ban him then? Does he return if you do?
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: I found my Youth Pastor that I debated when I was 14!

Postby Eteponge » 13 May 2010, 20:59

Scepcop wrote:Why don't you just ban him then? Does he return if you do?

We've banned his user name and IP Address probably over a hundred times now. He still returns with a new user name and new IP Address, often within the same day, to spam the same crap over and over again. It's not just on our forum though, he does it on many different forums. Even The Paracast forums got hit by him.

I think someone ought to notify the mental health professionals where he lives of his crazy online activities, as another forum hit by him once suggested.
"I think Eteponge's Blog is a pretty cool guy. eh debates Skeptics and doesnt afraid of anything."
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Re: I found my Youth Pastor that I debated when I was 14!

Postby NinjaPuppy » 14 May 2010, 02:08

Eteponge wrote:I think someone ought to notify the mental health professionals where he lives of his crazy online activities, as another forum hit by him once suggested.

Well, he either purchased some program that allows him to switch IPs or he's now 'on the road'. All of his previous IPs were from the Montreal, Canada area. I have personally banned so many Montreal hotel conference centers, it isn't even funny. This past winter I noticed that he was following the local bus route through Montreal. Probably using free wi-fi or conference rooms in different public buildings.

He's now registered under IPs all over the US. He may have taken to knocking on doors, looking for Atheists.... :lol:
Another possibility is that he is recruiting others to do his work for him.

He is annoying but hopefully harmless and as Eteponge stated we are not the only Forum on his list. He is know world wide.
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Re: I found my Youth Pastor that I debated when I was 14!

Postby really? » 14 May 2010, 11:23

From
The Adventures of Skippy The Skeptic

Turns out David Mabus is actually Dennis Markuze, a Nostradummy from Canada who's greatest "contribution" to the prophecy movement is a weird claim that Nostradamus predicted the coming of Depeche Mode and, through this, the World Trade Center attacks.

http://skippytheskeptic.blogspot.com/2008/05/who-hell-is-david-mabus.html
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Re: I found my Youth Pastor that I debated when I was 14!

Postby ciscop » 14 May 2010, 15:33

wow!!!!!!!
really is awesome!!!!

WELL DONE AGAIN!!! WOW MAN!!!
you know what you are talking about and you are kicking some mayor ass !!!
you rule!!!!
WELL DONE really!!!

you are making this forum REALLY interesting


:D :D :D :D :D
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: I found my Youth Pastor that I debated when I was 14!

Postby NinjaPuppy » 14 May 2010, 18:26

Well for anyone interested in tilting at windmills, you can report last nights attack with this information:

IP Information - 24.37.153.199
Montreal, Canada
Report to OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@videotron.ca
The IP information from last night came from his usual location. Good luck.
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Re: I found my Youth Pastor that I debated when I was 14!

Postby really? » 14 May 2010, 19:35

I googled David's name yesterday. He sure is the bane of many a forum and blog it seems.
I also found this while searching some more [the] David Mabus Forum http://forum.thinkhumanism.com/viewforum.php?f=61
Visit and share in the love.
I'm surprised I've never heard of him until a few days ago.
Last edited by really? on 14 May 2010, 20:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I found my Youth Pastor that I debated when I was 14!

Postby NinjaPuppy » 14 May 2010, 20:04

Now that we have all totally derailed SCEPCOP'S discussion.... We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.
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Re: I found my Youth Pastor that I debated when I was 14!

Postby Scepcop » 18 May 2010, 01:02

ProfWag wrote:The more I think about it, that was probably a mean comment I made considering Mabus' rants. I guess I'm just ready to move on to other things than religion. Sorry for the post.


Well let me make it clear that my Youth Pastor Ross Gunn is no nut. He is a very genuine man of high morals who practices what he preaches and lives by conviction. He will suffer hardships to follow his calling. He is one of the most honorable people I know.
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