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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Scepcop » 24 May 2009, 22:48

One more question Indigo Child.

A popular New Age belief is that thoughts create reality and that "you create your own reality". It's backed by some quantum physics too.

But if that's so, then how come the Titanic sank even though everyone thought it was "unsinkable"?

And how come often, our expectations don't manifest? We can be optimistic and hopeful, yet it can all go wrong. And we can feel doom and dread, yet it turns out to be for nothing, and our fears are relieved.

Doesn't that mean there must be an objective component to reality?

Guru and Author Wayne Dyer makes the "thought creates reality" principles out to be all powerful. He says that whatever you think will manifest. So how come we get disappointed and our thoughts don't always come true?

And just before the year 2000, there was widespread fear about everything shutting down, but it didn't. Why not?

Also, if thoughts create reality, then why can't we fly or walk through solid walls? Some hippies told me that it was because our thoughts weren't powerful enough. But if that's so, then how can it be an all powerful principle as they claim? How can they have it both ways?

What's your take on it?

Is Wayne Dyer exaggerating just to sell books? He seems like a kind and wise guy, it's hard to believe that he would distort something on purpose. Or am I misunderstanding him?
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Indigo Child » 25 May 2009, 05:12

Not just dreams, but all events takes place first in the astral and then is filtered down before it is manifest in the physical. In the astral it manifests immediately, but the events in the physical take time to manifest. After all what is time? It is the interval between two events. The interval in the astral is virtually zero, and this is why thoughts manifest as events instantly in your dreams. In each plane of reality, time is flower faster owing to the different energy densities, and therefore the interval between thought and event is relative. An event that takes place in the physical plane of reality, will have already have taken place in the higher energy density planes, and this is why sometimes your can observe events that are about to happen in your dreams. This is also the what is happening during genuine deja vu experience, you are thinking that an event has happened before because it really has happened in the astral before it manifested in the physical. This is what Wayne Dyer really means by our "thoughts create reality". The reason that peoples thoughts do not manifest is because they are attempting to manifest them from their waking-body consciousness, the individual mind, but the individual mind cannot affect the world. If that were possible, I could change the axis of the Earth with my thoughts. Such kind of idealism is naive idealism. In order to affect the world one must transcend the individual mind and enter the universal mind. It is only the universal mind that can affect the world. In the third chaprter of the Yogasutras, there is a whole section dedicated to paranormal powers and how they are activated, but these paranormal powers only become active once you have transcended the individual mind. If we take Dyer too literally, we will invariably be disappointed, because the thoughts of the individual mind cannot affect the world. However, if we act through the universal mind, then we can do some really amazing things with the powers of manifestation.

The hippiess that told you about concentration are not far-off from the truth. To shift into the universal mind you must be able to concentrate intention, and thus the powers of concentration are absolutely crucial in making thoughts manifest. I know it can be difficult sometimes to measure how well you are concentrating, but you can tell when it actually happens. It literally feels like "tuning-in" When you are concentrating what is really happening is the flow of mental energy is directed at your object in a focussed manner like a laser, and by doing so you create a relationship of resonance with the object and now your mind and the object are attuned to one another. If you wanted to make the object levitate, now you can. If you wanted to peer into the object and see its microscopic structure, now you can. If you wanted to materialise an object from the mental into the physical, now you can. The masters even have the powers to manifest a temporary body(See Autobiography of a Yogi)

Regarding the peeing. The dream world and and the physical world are not discontinuous but continiuous, this means they always interacting with one another. There have been many occasions where I have been dreaming and the television is on in the background, I then dream of what is happening on television. I think what is happening is that I am receiving the sound signals in a subconscious state and they are manifesting in my dream. Likewise, the biological signals to pee being received by you during your sleep are manifesting in your dream. Sometimes, but more rarely the interaction is the other way around: you wake up from a nightmare in an anxious state, your body is reacting in exactly the same way as it would to a "real" event, but in actuality it is a dream event. In more extreme cases being injured in a dream could manifest as a real injury. Even a death in a dream could mean death in real life, but I think this phenomenon is rare.

Finally, how do you differentiate between independent entities and imaginary entities in a dream. Robert Bruce gives a way to distinguish between them. He says that imaginary entities will behave in a mechanical robotic manner, their existence in the dream will be centralized to you, they will lack spontaniety. On the other hand, the genuine independent entities will behave independently of you, they will not be mechanical or robotic, and they will have spontaniety. Sometimes it is easy to tell if an entity in your dream is independent of you, because you will instantly know they are independent of you. The best thing to do is let your intuition guide you.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Scepcop » 26 May 2009, 06:02

Indigo Child, WOW! What an amazing post. You have such insight and awareness. You should write books and teach classes on metaphysics and spiritual growth.

One of my spiritual advisors says the same things, just with different words. But you have a way of making it understandable to the average reader.

So Wayne Dyer was basically saying that thoughts slowly manifest as reality then. If so, then they have little effect, especially if they are going "against the flow" right? Then it's best to align our thoughts "with the flow" so they'll have more power and less resistance right? That's why it's best to be in an environment, job and in the company of those you're most compatible with who resonate at the same or similar frequency with yours. Right?

What you said about the universal mind and the individual mind is interesting too, and confirms something I've always felt and even wrote about in my treatise, which is that prayer works when you pray for something that's more in alignment with the universal mind, consciousness, or God. That's why mothers' prayers are strongest, for instance, or prayers done out of compassion. People whose prayers are in alignment with the universe get almost every prayer answered, it seems.

So how do you concentrate with intention to tap into the universal mind? Is it like concentrating while playing chess or reading a book? It seems so out there. Perhaps meditation would help. But don't you need good visualization skills and patience?

Have you seen any yogis make things levitate or materialize?

There was one time I tuned in while doing a psi experiment with a paper wheel on a toothpick. It took a long time but I was finally able to make the wheel turn left and right at will, and at that point, I was able to "tune in". It felt like I had connected with the paper wheel. Such moments are rare though. And wouldn't it take a lot more energy to levitate something? How can the human mind ever generate that much energy? It's never been documented in a lab.

Perhaps, if psychic abilities are controlled by the "universal mind", that explains why we don't have full control over it and can't use it to show off or prove something to skeptics or win the lottery, because the "universal mind" doesn't agree with it yet. Is that correct?

I have had a few instances where I saw something happen a few minutes before it happened. It wasn't a hunch or guess though, more like an inner knowing.

Lately, I've often had dreams of flying. Is that a sign of anything? They tend to be very vivid and real. I feel a great elation while flying in these dreams. I also have this recurring dream where I can move objects with my mind, like in Star Wars with the Force. The thing is, those dreams of me moving objects with psychic powers are so real that during those dreams, I am fully convinced that they are real and in extreme euphoria about them too. When I wake up, I am in disbelief because the dream was so real, more real than normal, that it's hard to say it was just a dream.

Have you had that before? What do they mean?

Oh and one more question if you don't mind. When we are asleep and not dreaming, we aren't conscious. Also, during anasthesia, we don't have consciousness or awareness either. So how can we and the universe be made up of consciousness, if we have periods of nonconsciousness? Do you know?

Thanks a bunch for all your wisdom and info. I'm learning so much from you.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Indigo Child » 27 May 2009, 02:43

Thanks Skepcop, I am honoured that you would include me in the same breath as your spiritual advisor. A lot of my understandings of metaphysics and sprituality comes from an approach I apply that I calll "Observational physics" it is the next leap in science. Now we know that in QM the observer is indicated by the object, but realise that we cannot know the observer through studying the object, we will realise that true physics must begin with the observer. This will be be a departure from the old empiricist and hypothetico-deductive ways, which have always been stuck in a falsificationist paradigm. According to my prediction, new physics will be no different to spiritual science. The time is not far that mainstream science will be talking in terms of "Prana/Chi/Ki", sacred geometry, astral dimensions, spirit, and being. Most people today are still stuck in 19th century scientific paradigms, they are not even aware of the recent research in QM or String theory which reveal just how "strange" this universe is, and are gradually collapsing the distinctions between science and spirituality.

So Dyer is right that thoughts will manifest slowly, but you noted correctly, that if the flow of these thoughts are obstructed by opposing flows of thoughts, then their manifestation will be either attenuated or cancelled altogether. Thus if one has any kind of intention, they must work with a single resolve towards making that intention manifest. This is what Yogi's call "one-pointed consciousness" and to achieive one pointed consciousness it is important that we block out all opposing forces. This is why Yoga advises an 8-step process to restrain the opposing forces: Yama and Niyama(moral and personal constraints) to restrain ones conduct; Asana and Pranyama(posture and breath-control) to restrain ones body; Pratyhara and Dharana(withdrawl into a private space and focussing one thing) to restrain ones thoughts, and finally Dhyana(meditation) to restrain consciousness into a single uninterrupted flow. This leads to the final stage of Yoga called Samadhi(absorption) The more one practices this process, the easier it will be to achieve Dhyana. At this point you can do something called Samyama(perfect consciousness control) this is a perfectly synchronized pratyhara, dharana and dhyana, meaning that consciousness flows completely uninterrupted towards its object and then reveal sthe essence of ones object of meditation and activate many paranormal powers. I will mention some by citing from the Yogasutras:

Samyama on past impressions reveals ones past lives and the past
On ones current actions, reveals ones future lives and the future
On thoughts of others, activates the ability to read others minds
On the subtle body, activates the power of invisibility
On strength, activates the power of superhuman strength
On light, activates the power of clairvoyance
On the head, activates the power to receive visions from masters
On gravity, activates the power of levitation and walking over water
On sound, activates the power of clairaudience
On the elements, reveals complete knowledge of physics and activates the power to control the elements
On the mind, activates the power of teleportation

It would be amazing to see demonstrations of these paranormal powers, but I think because they require such a high level of spiritual development, this is why they are so rare. Most of us humans are underdeveloped spiritually, and hence why even the best of us can get vague images in remote viewing, or only move things a few inches with psychokinesis. The masters can do a lot more, but masters rarely demonstrate these abilities openly. I don't know any masters, so I have never seen any of these powers demonstrated. They are apparently common amongst the Tibetian monks and Indian Yogis etc. I guess the only option for us who are not blessed enough to be present within the company of these masters, is to follow the 8-step Yoga path ourselves and activate these powers within ourselves.
When demonstrating paranormal powers to skeptics, one must remain in a completely focussed state of consciousness, which is very hard to do because of negative mental energy these skeptics emanate, which then impedes our own focus. It is not because the universal mind will not allow the demonstration, it is more because we cannot enter into the universal mind because of the obstructions in the environment.
I even find when trying to explain spiritual things to negative skeptical minds, that I lose my powers of articulation. On the other hand, when explaining them to positive open minds, I flow very easily and surprise myself on just how much I understand. This is not to say that there can be no demonstrations to skeptics, only that the demonstrator must have a very focussed consciousness that cannot be perturbed by the immediate environment.

Accessing the universal mind, does not unfortunately require any kind of moral prerequisite. All it requires is focussed intent, and anybody can do it, irrespective of their moral character. The first advanced stage Pratyhara can be achieved by sensory depivation tanks, the later stages can be achieved using various mind-machine technologies such as binural beats, feedback machines etc. I think a lot of the negative ET groups use such technology, and I think negative human groups part of the shadow government are also using them. When your mother prays, because her intention is so pure, her prayers are answered, unfortunately while your mother does it in compassion, another doing it in arrogance, but with similar pure intention, can achieve the same. The esoteric lore is full of stories of negative beings using meditation to achieve powers for selfish intentions, and the higher celestials have been forced to grant them the powers because of the purity of their meditation. This makes me reeavulate what god is, and see god with more scientific eyes, it seems god is this neutral absolute power of realization, that can realize any intent whether it is positive or negative. I was surprised when I read the "Law of One" material suppoedly from RA, I am still undecided on whether they is valid or not, but when RA says that in terms of the absolute reality(One) the path of service to self and service to others is equivalent and both can ascend into higher densities, it came as a shock, but it made sense and brought previous fragments together. You can either move to extreme light, or extreme darkness, either way you are moving to the absolute. Of course the path of darkness does not at all appeal to me, it goes against very essence of who and what I am.

I definitely think your current dream experiences are very significant. The fact that dreams of flying are becomming common means that you are increasingly become awake in the astral, and sooner or later, you will be able to control your dreams(lucid dreams) and then eventually navigate the astral realm. I have had many experiences like this in the past, but they have become rare now for some reason. In one dream, which was so vivid and real, a secret was revealed to me. I realised that by controlling sound I could levitate up and down at different speeds. These sounds were coming from within, and I had heard the sound "Aum" like I had had never heard it before. I was so excited, I went and told my mother in my dream, and then I woke up and realised it was all a dream. I later realised that this dream was conveying a message to me about the relationship between levitation and sound. I had another dream where I got a message, some entities told me about the mental and the physical being a "double projection" I have also had dreams where I have heard very divine and holy songs, that I have never heard before. I very occasionally now get spiritual messages in dreams. A sign of your spiritual activity bearing fruit is how vivid your dreams are and what kind of messages you get, so it seems like your own spiritual activity is bearing fruit, and thus it is a very good thing.

When we are in a state of deep-sleep we are no longer conscious of anything and no dreams take place. It is a state of unconsciousness. This is known in esoteria as the causal plane, and this where all the latent causes behind all actions are present, which are known as samskaras. The reason we wake up again from this state with the same personal identity and memories is because these latent impressions impell us to enter dream and waking again. This is why we re-enter the dream world just before we are about to wake up. The Upanishads tell us that when we are in this state of deep-sleep we are merged in pure being, and the very reason that causes us to sleep is our desire to be with pure being, and hence why sleep rejuvenates us. It gives a beautiful analogy of a bird that is tighed to a pole with a long string, all day the bird flies about seeking something outside of the pole, when it eventually grows tired and returns back to the pole. Likewise, our senses are like the bird, all day they searching for their objects outside in the world, when eventually they tire, and return back to consciousness . So we are actually returning to god everytime we go to sleep, but we are not conscious of it. So the Upanishads say that the realised ones are they who are asleep when others are awake, and awake when others are asleep. This means what others consider to to be the waking world, is actually the world asleep to the realised one, and what others consider to be the sleeping world, is actually the word awake to the realised one. Hence our spiritual journey is to realise the same state of deep-sleep while awake.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Atrueoriginall » 27 May 2009, 04:36

It sounds like you went round-de-round with Jeff Ritzman and/or Jeremy Vaeni. Ritzman has a real nut about Maier.

It must be impossible seeing the world like others see it

I see too much of the world, it's people, their ways, the whys and wherefores of such, and the repercussions of how their actions affect so many.

It's been 12 years, 4 months and 19 days since this all began for me and I'm not a young pup anymore, I'm 57. I can even tell you it was at 8pm in the evening. Consequently, the time is killing me. I'm inundated with something every moment of the day and can only turn it off when my mind is busy in my blogs. I've had a lot of horrendous experiences and not a lot of good ones except maybe something that had to do with my daughter.

Which ET group were abducting you?


greys

I've seen others in screen memories and visions that aren't grey. I was shown an experience (which was supposedly mine) and the alien (just one) was bright green. He looked just like a grey but switch the colors. The feeling was the same as an OBE (as if I was there) and I was laying on a table and this green alien rolled up to me on a stool just like a doctor would. That action was a message that was telling me that "I am a doctor, or what you would consider a doctor to be" and he did it by rolling up on that stool like one of our doctors would do. A short while later he stood about 10 feet to my left and turned sideways so that I could see his profile. He then put his nose up in the air while tilting his head ever so slightly as if to do that snooty thing you would see in the movies of maybe a woman doing. That action instilled 'intimidation' in me. It's as if everything he was doing was to be looked at in 'my personal life' and applied accordingly. Well, the only incident that stood out for me in my life in respect to intimidation was my divorce attorney from 1987. I used to call her the 'intimidater' because she is. She not only intimidated her colleagues, she intimidated her staff, attorneys and even me. So this alien, which could have been a 'she' even though I keep saying 'he' was telling me that he/she was an individual who was involved in matters of the law. Boy, there's a combo for you, you wouldn't want to know. An attorney that is also a doctor. Not on our earth lol

Anyway, that's one of multitudes of things I've experienced and most of the others are ugly and heinous - all tests while gathering info - and that's all they are.

I do not believe the powers-that-be have our best interests in mind.


Don't always think it's the government when we know the powers-that-me in our particular case are old military and not the politicians. Even if disclosure were to happen it's just too easy for the U.S. to say we don't have anything because they always reminded us that they stopped taking reports on such all the way back to the demise of Project Blue Book so they've got a big 'out' and they'll (Obama) use that 'out'. Again, the military will never give up what they know and most of those involved are gone now anyway.

Speaking of which, have you seen the new evidence that Anthony Braglia has discovered?

ROSWELL DEBRIS CONFIRMED AS EXTRATERRESTRIAL: Lab Located, Scientists Named

Friedman is probably elated and wish they would involve him, after all it is his baby.

Anyway, I tend to stay low key with my experiences these days as I mentioned earlier. They're stored in my own forum, which only has 750 members so activity is very light. That's fine with me because my experiences shouldn't be made available to the masses anyway, not just yet. They're just too 'out there' for the norm to accept. But, here's a page of some of the more heinous acts of ETs performed with me. Mind you, this is ongoing today but with a different group (they change up occasionally).

MALEVOLENT EXPERIENCES WITH ALIENS

By the way, I saw your blog. Kant was way ahead of his time, wasn't he? Makes you wonder where he got his wisdom. Scary thought. I dwell in Kant as well and Tao, etc. Whatever works.

Well, I'm off to dig up some ibuprofen. I have that all too familiar sound of small pieces of velcro tearing in my brain, which means I've probably said too much. :) See, told you it was weird - too weird.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Atrueoriginall » 27 May 2009, 10:49

To Scepcop: I just realized that this thread had already gone to page two and I missed your post until now. It's late right now but I'll be back to comment on it probably tomorrow.

One thing I can tell you now though are that my posts are 'not' in ATS - are you kidding? That's the last place I would ever post them. May posts are in the UFO Casebook forum and my forum here. My screen name is alien_contactee in my forum.

No way on ATS. ATS won't even get a sentence from me about my experiences. I'm not one to bang my head up against the wall, which is what you do in there if you post personal experiences. And then there's the labeling. I don't want to be labeled. There's much better forums to visit. :)
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Scepcop » 27 May 2009, 23:26

Hi Atrueoriginal,
Wow your forum is nice. I like the theme and it appears to be very active. Black backgrounds make it look more mysterious.

I always thought ATS was a pro paranormal forum. Isn't it? Or maybe it's only pro conspiracy theory.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Scepcop » 29 May 2009, 12:33

Hi Indigo Child,
I have to read your last long post several times, because it was hard to comprehend and visualize what you were saying. And I wasn't familiar with some of the Vedic words too. I haven't studied the Yogic path much.

I've been watching a lot of videos on YouTube lately about NDE's. They are fascinating, especially when they take place during a flat brainline.

But I wonder, how come not everyone has an NDE when they are clinically dead or near death? And why do people see figures from their own religions? Is it because they are attuned to those astral planes?

I also have this thing called sleep paralysis. Here's a video about it.



These are the kind of sounds you hear during sleep paralysis.



Some say the entities are brain hallucinations. Others say they are demons. What do you think? And why do they have an evil laugh and presence?

Have you ever had sleep paralysis before? I've had them since I was 5 or 6, but not so much anymore.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Indigo Child » 29 May 2009, 14:00

Hi Skeocop,

I am sorry my last posting was confusing, is there anything I can clarify in it for you?

Regarding NDE. There is a great website online on NDE research and has analyses the most common themes. I don't have the link at hand at the moment. I will need to find it again. While it is true that an individual's experience differs from person to person, there are common themes e.g., there is a life review. This life review takes place in different ways for different people depending on their own beliefs, background and culture. Some will just have their life-review shown to them on a television set, while some will have their life read out loud to them by a scribe. It is evident from this that a real phenomena is taking place, but how it manifets to the individual is based on their own conditioning. The astral plane is not like a physical place, it has both quasi-objective and quasi-subjective characteristics. This means it an actual place in which you can interact, but how it manifests to you is subjective. I think the makers of the film, "What Dreams May Come" understood the astral quite well, as in this film each individual has their own subjective world inside the astral, based on their own thoughts. The higher density planes do not at all behave like our physical plane, for want of a better word, reality becomes more liquid-like the higher you go.
The astral also has places which have been created by thought-forms by other cultures, and they actually exist as quasi-objective places in the astral.

I have had many experiences of sleep paralysis and they are very scary. I have had some where I constantly felt like I was dragged back into sleep by an evil entity, constantly flirting in and out of consciousness. I have succeeded to wake up for a few minutes, and tried to move, only to be dragged back in. This video offers a physicalist neurobiological explanation for this phenomenon, whilst at the same trying to explain all abduction experiences away as sleep paralysis by using the "authority" figure to explain away everything, as if he really knows what he is talking about. In neurophilosophy there is a very influencial and sizable group of such philosopher who want to argue that consciousness and spiritual experiences are nothing more than effects created in the brain. This is based on actual empirical evidence which shows that there are neural correlates to every conscious experience, but this does not mean the neural phenomenon is actually causing the conscious experience. These philosophers do not actually know that the mind is like a transmitter and receivier that interacts with reality. It is an electrochemical crystaline structure(which in turn is just fields of consciousness) that receives and transmits signals and the signal it tunes into becomes its reality(like hopping from one channel to the other) this signal can be interfered with by electrochemical substances, such as drugs, which can cause the mind to jump out of its current channel and enter into other channels. The experiences consciousness has will register as neurological phenomenon in the body because the soul is still connected to the body by the "silver cord" and the body is constantly receiving feeds from the soul, which are processed in the brain. This is why the ears can ring, REM movement can take place, and areas of the brain become stimulated.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Scepcop » 30 May 2009, 03:57

Hi Indigo Child,
It's not that you didn't explain it well enough. I'm just not familiar with some of those Vedic terms and concepts.

Could the NDE website you're referring to be www.nderf.org? That is the most comprehensive one I know. It's been around for years.

I think you have a strong left and right brain, a rare combination.

Were you ever a Christian or Atheist when you grew up? What is your religious background?

How many astral planes are there? Is there an infinite number? Do Jesus and Buddha have their own astral planes, where their followers go to? I wonder if they were pre-existing beings or if they were created by the collective belief in them.

Do dreams take place in the astral plane?

Yes, the movie "What Dreams May Come" was one of my favorite movies.

Like you, I've also had the experience of sleep paralysis where once you snap out of it, it starts again when you lie down. Those are very aggravating.

I used to have them a lot, but not so much anymore, after I stopped being afraid of them and tried to take advantage of them :)

I found that when sleep paralysis happens, if you just let it go and passively watch it without resistance, after a few minutes you will get up naturally from it. And by then, you will feel rejuvenated somehow, as if a calm tranquility came over you. Also, I learned to transform the experience into a lucid flying dream. As soon as I focus on that, the frightening images and sounds go away. Or I can just visualize something else and they go away.

But I wonder though, why the initial state of sleep paralysis involves fear and the feeling of an evil presence. Beside the loud roaring sound, I also hear evil laughter, voices screaming in pain, and even faces spitting and cussing at me in unknown languages. Have you ever experienced that too?

Yes there was a neurologist in that video who was a typical skeptic who never considers any other dimensions. For those types, science is like their religion, they have a dogmatic faith in it and are limited by it too.

Here is a more interesting video though, called "Sleep Paralysis - Ghost Visions". Here in part 3, an experiencer in NY has actually had a priest and his girlfriend see the entity bothering him during sleep paralysis, while they were awake. That is a new one, and one that does not fit the scientific explanation. It also shows an open minded sleep paralysis researcher who says that the scientific hypothesis simply does not fit all the data. (I should add a page to the home page about the skeptical explanations not always fitting all the data too).







I hope you enjoy that one.

I wonder though, if these evil entities you see during sleep paralysis are from the lower astral planes. If so, why does sleep paralysis connect us to such a low astral plane, rather than a higher one?

Yes I've heard of the radio analogy to the brain, that the brain is just the equipment, but not the source of the consciousness, just like a radio is not the source of the sound coming from it.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Indigo Child » 31 May 2009, 07:15

Hey,

No, the web site is this one: http://www.near-death.com/

Here is a near-death experience cited on this web site which mentions demons:

All my communication with them took place verbally just as ordinary human communication occurs. They didn't appear to know what I was thinking, and I didn't know what they were thinking. What was increasingly obvious was that they were liars and help was farther away the more I stayed with them.

Hours ago, I had hoped to die and end the torment of life. Now things were worse as I was forced by a mob of unfriendly and cruel people toward some unknown destination in the darkness. They began shouting and hurling insults at me, demanding that I hurry along. And they refused to answer any question.

Finally, I told them that I wouldn't go any farther. At that time they changed completely. They became much more aggressive and insisted that I was going with them. A number of them began to push and shove me, and I responded by hitting back at them.

A wild orgy of frenzied taunting, screaming and hitting ensued. I fought like a wild man. All the while it was obvious that they were having great fun.

It seemed to be, almost, a game for them, with me as the center-piece of their amusement. My pain became their pleasure. They seemed to want to make me hurt – by clawing at me and biting me. Whenever I would get one off me, there were five more to replace the one.

By this time it was almost complete darkness, and I had the sense that instead of there being twenty or thirty, there were an innumerable host of them. Each one seemed set on coming in for the sport they got from hurting me. My attempts to fight back only provoked greater merriment. They began to physically humiliate me in the most degrading ways. As I continued to fight on and on, I was aware that they weren't in any hurry to win. They were playing with me just as a cat plays with a mouse. Every new assault brought howls of cacophony. Then at some point, they began to tear off pieces of my flesh. To my horror I realized I was being taken apart and eaten alive, slowly, so that their entertainment would last as long a possible.

At no time did I ever have any sense that the beings who seduced and attacked me were anything other than human beings. The best way I can describe them is to think of the worst imaginable person stripped of every impulse to do good. Some of them seemed to be able to tell others what to do, but I had no sense of any structure or hierarchy in an organizational sense. They didn't appear to be controlled or directed by anyone. Basically they were a mob of beings totally driven by unbridled cruelty and passions.

During our struggle I noticed that they seemed to feel no pain. Other than that they appeared to possess no special non-human or super-human abilities.

Although during my initial experience with them I assumed that they were clothed, in our intimate physical contact I never felt any clothing whatsoever.

Fighting well and hard for a long time, ultimately I was spent. Lying there exhausted amongst them, they began to calm down since I was no longer the amusement that I had been. Most of the beings gave up in disappointment because I was no longer amusing, but a few still picked and gnawed at me and ridiculed me for no longer being any fun. By this time I had been pretty much taken apart. People were still picking at me, occasionally, and I just lay there all torn up, unable to resist.

Exactly what happened was ... and I'm not going to try and explain this. From inside of me I felt a voice, my voice, say, "Pray to God."


http://www.near-death.com/experiences/storm01.html

There are common themes emerging here, also discussed in the videos about demons: They are evil, they cackle, they verbally abuse and physically abuse. These are entities caught up in hell like worlds in the lower astral planes. The reason sleep paralysis connects us with this plane is because during sleep paralysis the soul is entering its body, but gets caught in between the physical plane and the astral plane and thus hovers close to the lower astral planes where it becomes vulnerable to demon attacks.

Can you dream in the astral? Remember how in What Dreams May come there is an objective astral plane where there are groups of people and entire societies, and there also subjective astral planes, where each individual has their own subjective world. This subjective-objective mirror occurs at every level of reality. This is what I meant by leaving the lucid dream to enter the astral. The lucid dream is the subjective part of the astral, and the actual astral realm is the objective world. Why is this possible? There are two minds; individual mind and universal mind. The individual mind is what creates the subjective world, and the universal mind is what creates the objective world. You can switch between the two. Psychic abilities only become active when you are in universal mind.

I cannot really say how many levels of the astral plane there is because I have not had that many astral experiences. I can tell you what the esoteric lore says though: There are 7 levels, divided into three categories: gross, subtle and causal. The causal being the higher realms. However, others say that are levels within levels and there are potentially infinite levels(my intuition doubts this). If there is one book you should definitely read it is "Astral Dynamics" by Robert Bruce. He has had loads of experiences in the astral and has visited many different levels.

As for my religious history I am a rare case of an atheist, skeptic and scientist going the other way and becoming spiritual. I was also an extreme nihilist, but I think nihilism was basically my rites of passage into spirituality. Everybody has to go through nihilism, it is the true baptism every soul must go through. Interestingly, I just finished my new blog entry on this topic.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Scepcop » 01 Jun 2009, 02:52

Wow Indigo Child, that is quite an account. I wonder if those demons were once human, or if they are fallen angels. Are they in hell forever, as the Bible says?

So how come during sleep paralysis, we touch the lower astral planes and not a higher one?

Also, I wonder, when mediums contact the spirits of the deceased, like George Anderson or Jonathan Edwards does, and get accurate hits, how come they never say to their clients "Oops, your loved one already reincarnated on Earth, so we can't contact him/her"?

Another good movie you might like is "The Peaceful Warrior". It came out in 2006 and has a lot of spiritual messages.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Indigo Child » 14 Jun 2010, 02:30

Hi Scepcop,

This is a very late response indeed! Demons are basically souls
who have become identified with demonic qualities like vioence,
greed, lust, pride and envy. These souls will at some point
see the light. In the end reality is not dual where there is a good
side and a bad side and they are forever in conflict, the ultimate
reality transcends all distinctions. It is because there is no separation
here that no demonic quality can arise, instead it is pure love, joy
and bliss. So you are right demons are basically fallen souls, but the
light of god still shines on them. It is their choice when they want to turn
back and be in the light.

In sleep paralysis we are in the lower astral planes and not the higher ones
because during this time we are on the etheric level of reality, which is only one
step above the physical. In fact it overlaps largely with the physical, and it
also overlaps with the infra-levels. It is during this period we are most prey
to demons. If we think about it logically, if you are in the higher levels of
light and love, it would be impossible for anything less than light and love to
come there. Therefore, the demonic ones have to be at the lowest. In the Vedic
map there are 7 higher levels and 7 lower levels.

Regarding mediums channeling spirits. Some spirits remain in the astral planes
for a while before they incarnate again. The other explanation could be, that mediums
are channeling a memory complex and not actally a spirit form. The medium in the end
is receiving information from a plane of reality which is mixed with subjetivity and
objectivity, that it becomes very difficult to know what is real and what isn't. Is the
medium contacting an actual spirit form, a memory complex, or some group consciousness,
or their own subconsciousness or a combination of all.

I watched Peaceful Warrior recently, after reading a few chapters in the book. You are right
it is a beautiful movie, it has become one of my all time favourites.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Scepcop » 14 Jun 2010, 22:56

Hi Indigo Child,
Glad to continue this discussion again.

So if the lower astral planes are closer to Earth, does that explain why most people are selfish and greedy and materialistic, because those lower realms influence us more?

If the departed spirits hang around Earth for a while, then how do you reconcile that with the fact that beyond the physical plane, time as we know it does not exist and is not governed by clocks? If there is no time in other planes, then why would they only be around for a finite time? Wouldn't they have an eternity to hang around if they wanted to? I can't comprehend this.

I also have a question about reincarnation I might have asked before.

Do we choose our lives on Earth? If so, wouldn't everyone choose to be born rich, attractive, healthy and with an easy life? Who would choose to be born as a starving child in Africa who dies after a few years? What would that accomplish? A sick child causes a lot of grief to their parents. Who would choose to do that?

Also, what if everyone chose the same life, how can there be enough "great lives" to go around? Wouldn't most be forced to be born in poverty since most of the world is in poverty?

I read a book about astral planes, and it said that after we die, the plane that we are attuned to will be where we end up, the good go to higher planes, and the bad go to lower planes, etc. But most people are not all good or bad. They are a mixture of good and bad qualities. A lustful person might be a kind loving generous guy who gives a lot and has a good heart with basic morals. So where would he end up, if he has a mixture of wholesome and unwholesome traits? Would they be tallied to see which side was higher?

Thanks,
Winston
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby ProfWag » 14 Jun 2010, 23:18

And what if...there was no reincarnation and people were simply born after semen interacts with an egg. Wouldn't that answer your questions Scepcop?
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