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Hi everybody

Postby Indigo Child » 22 May 2009, 09:03

Hi everbody,

I am a member at the Above Top Secret forum, and was directed to this forum by a member posting in my thread, "Debunking Psuedoskepticism: Common fallacies" in the ET/UFO forum. I joined because I really am not fond of pseudoskeptics and I feel that they are impeding serious and genuine research in the paranormal field, and need to be rooted out. I personally believe that paranormal research is just as legitimate as any other mainstream scientific field, and perhaps even more important, because as one philosopher once said, "science is bound by metaphysics on both sides"

I am well read in Philosophy, Logic, Religion and Spirituality, and Metaphysics. I hope to be a good contributor to this forum :)

Regards,

Indigo
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Scepcop » 22 May 2009, 22:32

Welcome Indigo Child!

I saw your debunking ET skeptics post. It was fantastic. Can you post the link here for us?

Or is it on your website somewhere? I would like to reference it as part of this site too, and put it on the home page.

You are very good at debunking sketpics. Would you like to be on the SCEPCOP Committee? I can put your name and links to your site and a thumbnail photo of you on the home page if you like.

Do you have a website?

Where are you from? Any paranormal experiences you'd like to share?

Regards,
Vinstonas
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Indigo Child » 23 May 2009, 04:16

Thanks Scepcop,

I would love to be on the committe. I do not have a web site though, though I have planned one. It was going to be about philosophy in general and clarifying the problems of philosophy. I would prefer not to have my photo or my actual real name and details posted, as a general principle I do not not share any personal information online. The only information I can share is I am from the UK. If I can operate under the pseudonym "Indigo Child" it would be great. As regards to my own paranormal experiences, I have only had the occasional OBE's and meditation experiences, and a few psychic intuitions, but nothing to really write about. My main experience is dealing with skeptics both online and offline, online my paths have crossed with some "official" ones. I had them own up to me they did not do their research. Their arguments are not difficult to deal with, because they are not arguments at all, but dogmatic assertions most of the time.

You are free to reference my post directly from this forum itself. I might later post it up my web site, if I do go ahead with my web site plans.

Sincerely,

Indigo
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Scepcop » 23 May 2009, 08:37

Hi Indigo,
Ok then I will just list you on the committee as Indigo Child. Do you want to use an avatar as a picture, maybe a graphic of some sort?

Until you have a website, I will just link your "debunking UFO fallacies" as your link. If you want an easy site, just sign up for a blog at www.blogger.com. It has an easy to use layout that you can set up in a few minutes. Leo MacDonald is doing that too, you can see his blog on the home page.

So you are a female then?

Were you an Indigo child before?

When you had your OBE, how was it different from a dream? I have had a lot of lucid dreams, but I don't know if they are also astral projections or OBE's. How can you tell?

Thanks and welcome to the committee!

Winston
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Indigo Child » 23 May 2009, 22:51

Thanks Scepcop,

I will definitely consider the blog site.

I am male, but for some reason many people assume I am female online. I think it is probably because of the name "Indigo child" I have always been an Indigo child, well of course now I am an Indigo adult, but still prefer to call myself "Indigo child" because as a spark of the pure spirit, I am its child. So the reason behind the name is based on my spiritual beliefs. I think the child is much closer to god and much more innocent, honest and inquisitive and thus the inner-child is something to be realised.

For my photo, anything mystical or celestial would describe me well. The ones I currently use at ATS, which I created myself are:

Image

And

Image

I understand it is difficult to differentiate between OBE and lucid dreams, and I have rationalized some of my OBE's as lucid dreams as well. In my experience you can differentiate a genuine OBE/astral projection and a lucid dream by

1) OBES will be accompanied by very strong tingling and pulsation sensations, which will increase exponentially, until you exit your body. It will feel like a whoosh!
2) As soon as you are out of your body there will be a vortex before you that will suck you in. You will see the same surroundings of your room, but they will look different, very vivid and will seem slightly pixelated and you will also hear background noise.
3) You will hear a humming like sound and its pitch will keep increasing

Sometimes OBES can take place within a lucid dream. These are harder to differentiate. As soon as you wake-up in your dream, you can leave the dream and enter the astral.

I hope that helps,

Indigo
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Indigo Child » 24 May 2009, 03:24

Hi,

Thanks to your encouragement and recommendation I set-up my first ever blog: http://philospirit.blogspot.com/

Regards,

Indigo
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Scepcop » 24 May 2009, 04:28

Cool then. I will link it to your mini-profile. Have a look at this guy's paranormal blog. It has a ton of excellent links to articles debunking pseudo-skeptics on the right hand side. Many of them are fantastic and I am adding them to my home page right now.

http://subversivethinking.blogspot.com/

With blogspot, you can also put Adsense Ads in the sidebars, and make a little money from your blog too, with ads that show relevant topics, like the ads you see on the right bar in this forum. You can activate Adsense from the layout menu in the settings section of blogger.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Atrueoriginall » 24 May 2009, 05:55

Indigo Child wrote:Thanks Scepcop,I am male, but for some reason many people assume I am female online. I think it is probably because of the name "Indigo child"


Guilty as charged. I immediately thought female too. My daughter is an indigo as well (17-years-old).

You must tell me sometime how you survive ATS. I am a member in there too but an exorbitant amount of sarcasm and skepticism from the members is too much for me and I find myself angry a bit too often, so I stopped visiting.

From 2004 until late 2007 I was a Global Moderator at the UFO Casebook. I only survived because I was a mod and people knew not to tinker in my posts without first having similar experiences of their own.

Besides an exorbitant amount of OBEs, awake state (lengthy) visions in both black/white and color, numerous lucid dreams, I am an abductee. Last abduction was October of 1988 and my experiences I have coincided with my last abduction. Prior to that date, I had never even had a lucid dream. As well and since, I am a magnet for the paranormal and have even experienced full-blown possession more than once.

So you see, in many forums it's usually difficult for me to share and instead I found myself just piecemealing my experiences in a thread. I also found over time that If I didn't 'piecemeal', I would lose credence with those in the forum since my experiences are definitely 'out there' - and I'm sure you know what I mean. Besides that, UFO people tend to only believe in UFOs and won't accept the notion that there's something actually maneuvering it. lol That is simply a denial issue I think.

Typically, I do not use the word 'believe' though. I actually do go the way of science and 'believe' only what's been tested or observed and I never allow anyone to believe what I write since they are my experiences and only I was the observer - that is unless they've had the same or similar experience. So instead, I have a couple of filing cabinets in my brain marked as a 'possibility' or 'definite possibility' and it works nicely for me.

I've seen many conspiracy theorists created simply because they tend to believe everything that they read and a good deal of paranoia tends to follow shortly thereafter. Spending every day in the forum for three plus years showed me that. I virtually witnessed personality changes in members. The mind is a funny duck - this we know.

What Scepcop is doing here is very unique and warranted and I really hope it goes somewhere. The skeptics of today are simply experiencing paradigm paralysis - and like any individual with a psychological problem, they will never admit to it simply because it is psychological. Instead, they trudge on in hopes of destroying something that is actually much bigger than them.

Scepcop, if you're reading this - how are you going to handle skeptics if they come in to post?
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby leo100 » 24 May 2009, 07:30

Welcome Indigo to the forum
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Indigo Child » 24 May 2009, 10:03

Thanks Leo,

Atrueoriginall,

I have had testing times on ATS, but in general I enjoy the diversity of opinions there. Most recently I had a huge stand-off with ATS skeptics, as well as believers on Billy Meier. Billy Meier is hated with a passion on ATS and they are absolutely convinced he is a hoax because of the IIG-west investigation of Meier. Although the jury is still out on the Meier case in terms of the details as far as I am concerned, I did completely demolish the IIG investigation of Meier and exposed one of the main IIG debunkers who joined to defend himself, but ended up making a fool out of himself. He passed of ignorant statements on the metal sample evidence by Marcel Vogel, and then admitted in the end that he had not actually read the extensive scientific reports that were available for a nominal fee on Meiers web site and published in Lee Elders book. He also claimed that the Wedding Cake UFO was a trashcan with minor embellishments, and also claimed that the tree was a model, I then referred him a video where the Wedding cake UFO is seen hovering besides a tree and it is filmed from an extreme distance. It is clearly visible that the Wedding cafe UFO is not a trashcan lid as this guy claimed. To explain it away he claimed the tree was a small model, later he retracted this statement when forestry experts confirmed that it was a fully grown tree, but did not retract his claim that the Wedding cake UFO is a trashcan. This is an obvious inconsistency because if the tree in the footage is real, then it means the Wedding cake UFO cannot be a trashcan.

I exposed the IIG duplications of Meier's photographs to be fradulent. A basic law in logic is that if x is y, x has the same properties as y. If IIG are claiming that their photographs are valid duplications of Meier's UFO photographs they must replicate all of the main properties of the UFO's 1) Depth of field 2) Altitude 3) Distance and they must succesfully pass similar scientific testing the Meier photographs did. It is immediately apparent to the naked eye that IIG duplications are suspended on fishing poles and they do not at all match the Meiers UFO photograph, and thus is little wonder that they refused to submit them for independent scientific testing. Nonetheless, they are shamelessly claming they have duplicated his photographs and many people on ATS are believing it. I asked many ATS members to duplicate his photographs, and those that tried were pitiful and I debunked them right off. Interesingly, they made no attempts to duplicate his videos.
I saw one professional attempt by a whole Japanense film crew, and they struggled to keep their UFO's suspended of a pole still. The Meier videos clearly show very large UFO's hovering a significant distance from the camera, at high altitude, and being able to appear and disappear without a single loss of film frame. I am thus convinced that the Meier footage and photographs are genuine, but I am unsure of the rest of the details of the case. My spirited defense of Meier on ATS turned into one of the most controversial topics, with staff getting involved, it was eventually deleted, and then due to the unpopularity of the decision with some who saw it an institutionalized effort to suppress Meier, it was restored in another forum, but remained closed. It was then decreed that no more discussion on Meier would take place. Now a forum is created called, "Hoax" with Meier as its image.

Your experiences from abductions, OBES to possession sound very powerful. It must be impossible seeing the world like others see it, with experiences like that. I really hope that in my future, if I am still alive, that ET contact is revealed. I would much prefer to live in a world that is integrated with the rest of the universal community, then a world that is isolated from it. Unfortunately, the powers that be will not allow that to happen, and contrary to what some think that is because they are trying to protect us from social psychosis, the reason they don't want to reveal ET contact is because the very act of doing so will mean the end of the illegal power structures they have erected over so many decades. I do not believe the powers-that-be have our best interests in mind.
What do you think?

P.S. Which ET group were abducting you?
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Scepcop » 24 May 2009, 15:35

Hi Indigo Child,
I just added you to the committee. Have a look at the home page and at your new mini profile.

Yes, I thought you were female because of the name "Indigo Child", a term that females tend to choose and write books about. And because your avatar has a female angel too.

In regard to OBE's and lucid dreams, how do you know the room you're seeing during OBE is real or created during the lucid dream in the dreamworld? During my lucid dreams, I was fully conscious and could fly, but all I could see around me was blackness and weird shapes and forms. I couldn't see my room. I tried to see it, but all I could come up with was a dark room that looked nothing like it. Do you need visualization skills? But even if I saw it, how do I know it's not part of the dream world?
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Scepcop » 24 May 2009, 17:02

Hi Atrueoriginal,

Wow so you've had all kinds of experiences, including abduction ones.

Can you describe some of your abduction experiences, or at least copy and paste them from ATS if you don't have time to write them?

Were researchers like John Mack and Bud Hopkins fairly accurate about abductees in their books?

So you mean you had to "piecemeal" your posts at ATS? What does that mean? Why would people in a paranormal forum be disbelieving of your claims?

You are right though that we do not and should not just believe everything we hear. I never advocated that, and neither does anyone else. Everything out there is just something to "consider" as a possibility. As a truth seeker, that's all you can do, is consider it and ask questions, until you have direct experience of it yourself. A nontruth seeker will automatically dismiss anything that doesn't fit into their belief system, even if there's evidence for it.

But logically, if half or more people in the world have a common psi experience like telepathy, for instance, then there is a very strong probability that there's something to it. I think we all agree on that.

But for claims like the Loch Ness Monster, we do not have a majority of the Earth's population claiming to have seen it, so the evidence is far far weaker. But then again, we can't rule it out.

I've had some telepathy experiences, and one ghost experience which I posted about in the "Paranormal Experiences" board of this forum.

As to skeptics on this board, I haven't decided on that one yet.

Do you all think it's a good idea to allow skeptics on the forum? Or would it be better to have a board free of them? Or to keep them all on the "Debating Skeptics" board only?

The thing is, having them here would help generate traffic and attention. But the downside is the negative energy they would bring. And of course, it would ultimately be pointless since they will hash the same arguments over and over and over again without end, as well as the same ridicule tactics.

What do you think? Perhaps we should do a poll on it.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Scepcop » 24 May 2009, 18:05

Ok everyone I just started a poll about whether we should let skeptics post here or not. Cast your vote here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Indigo Child » 24 May 2009, 20:54

Hey Skepcop,

Yeah the profile is great. I hope to add further articles in the future, one I would like to work on is on the reality of this world. In philosophical language, any kind of experience you are having is called a phenomenological state and every phenomenological state has a corresponding functional and and physical state. Thus it is widely believed, by such neurophiosophers like Metzinger that there is a neural correlate to every phenomenological state and that it is actually the same thing as the brain. These are basically the skeptical theories of mind which consider the mind to be nothing more than a processing system running on the physical hardware of the brain(software: hardware analogy), but it is also admitted by some neurophilosopher that it is not necessary that the mind runs on the brain, it can also run on some spiritual substance like a mind-stuff(this is closer to the truth) but either way experience is virtual reality. There is very strong empirical evidence(such as Ramachandran's experments on phantom limbs) to support that experience really is virtual reality, it has no correspondence to the actual physical reality, so either way it is illusory. Now phenomenological reality does not just consist of waking reality, but various modes of realities based on states of consciousness. They are according to the Indian tradition: waking, dream and deep sleep. If you read the Viveka-Chudmani by Sankarcharya(available online, just google it) he uses rational arguments to show why there really is absolutely no grounds to consider waking reality anymore real than than dream reality. They are both ephemeral, the only difference is time flows faster in dream reality than it does in waking reality. Therefore based on this, I have come to just accept all dream experiences as real as any waking experience I am having, and thus it is not important to ask the question "Is it real" lest we are prepared to ask the same question of our waking reality, and the answer is, none of it really is real in the end: the entire universe is holographic in nature. My suggestion would be, because it something I have applied in my life as well, is simply to take each experience as it comes, and don't doubt it.

There are some OBE experiences which take place within the physical realm itself, i.e., the soul does not pass the barrier into the astral, but remains on the edge of the etheric. In those instances you can navigate the physical world in your spirit-body and observe things going on there, later you can validate it when you return to your body. I have not had any experience like this, mine are more astral, but I know many do have these experiences. I highly recommend a book by Robert Bruce, "Astral Dynamics" it is perhaps the most detailed and helpful books I have read on OBES and astral projection, in its own right a tome in the field.
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Re: Hi everybody

Postby Scepcop » 24 May 2009, 22:40

Wow that's fascinating Indigo Child.

So do you think all dreams take place in some astral dimension? If so, are the entities in our dreams existing independently of our minds? Or are they only in our minds?

Sometimes in my dreams I meet people and see places that look very familiar to me, as if they were long lost and forgotten. What are those?

And are deja vu's really only tricks of memory? Are there any metaphysical components in them?

So if you see your room as it really is, while out of body, then it's a real OBE right? But if it's just a lucid dream, the room will look totally different?

There is one key difference between the real world and the dream world that I've noticed though. In the morning, when I have to pee badly, I will dream that I am urinating and relieving the pressure. But since it's a dream, after I have finished I will still feel the strong urge to urinate again and so will repeat the dream over and over again until I realize it's a dream and wake up to pee in real life. Doesn't that indicate that the waking world is more "objective" or "real" than the dream world?
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