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Re: Howdy

Postby Arouet » 07 Jun 2011, 08:56

Dont' quit your day job, and for God's sake - don't borrow any money in pursuit of this dream!
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Re: Howdy

Postby JO 753 » 07 Jun 2011, 17:05

Good advice!

Therez alwayz this inspiring talk about making the world a better place coming frum politicianz and various celebritiez, usually addressing an auditorium full uv kidz. But az soon az you try to actually change sumthing thats obviously in need uv improvement, everybody starts shouting about respect for tradition, naive optimizm, established time tested bla bla bla.

To quote George Bernard Shaw, "Reazonable peepl adapt themselvez to the world. Unreazonable people attempt to adapt the world to themselvez. All progress, therefore, dependz on unreazonable peepl."
IF PEPL TuK KeR UV XeR TiM aZ DILIJeNTLE aZ XA TuK KeR UV XeR MUNE, XA WuDNT SPeND SO MUC TiM TAKING KeR UV XeR MUNE.
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Re: Howdy

Postby Arouet » 07 Jun 2011, 20:04

Good luck to you then...
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Re: Howdy

Postby Twain Shakespeare » 14 Jun 2011, 12:06

I admit to a considerable investment in the 20th century English verse, which gives a predisposition to knee jerk mockery such as above, but...
1.GB Shaw spent a considerable amount of effort on a similar project, and my “dyslexic” brother invented his own syllabary, where “predisposition” would be transcribed as “pree-diss-pose-sit-shun”, and “dyslexic” as “dice-leak-sick” so you are in company I like, and...
2.Your target audience is not native speaking, but those trying to learn a second language, so the objections of the native speakers are largely “ear-rev-veil-ant”
3.As far as their objections as to the difficulty of relearning do have validity, I suspect we exaggerate. Years of reading my brother's missives, and remedial students English papers, as well as studies on the actual process of reading, reassure me that the difficulties mentioned are manageable by minds which look at the first and last letters of a word and guess from context what comes between. Considerable...
4.Texting. Which brings us to the point of my specifying my language is “20th century English” and the original objections. However, I consider English to be a dead language, a fact not generally noticed because all English speakers are dead. I speak American. I also read it, and I read English as well. The writings as the past slip into obscurity, as meanings change. Shakespeare would find modern “English” far more incomprehensible than we find him, and even Shaw would be badly confused.
5.Last point. You are not proposing everything be rewritten, thank goodness. You are proposing something like Basic English, a learning tool. Good Luck
"What's so Funny about Peace, Love, and Understanding?"
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Re: Howdy

Postby JO 753 » 14 Jun 2011, 17:27

Thanks! A well written, considered response, justifying your member name.
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Re: Howdy

Postby Craig Browning » 15 Jun 2011, 01:56

JO 753 wrote:I see it az an opportunity!

Billionz are earned worldwide teaching regular english spelling by skoolz, literacy training products, teacherz and tutorz. They are all pushing a bad product. So I shoud be able to get rich selling a superior product!

At the very least, wen the alienz finally decide to reveal themselvez and take over the planet, I will be able to say 'I wuznt with them! Look! I tried to fix it!' and they will probably put me in charge. :D


I have the funny feeling the Alien Probe when too deep in your case and struck the brain stem. . . :roll:

About Spanish, yes; Nooalf coverz spanish better than its own spelling duz. Since english haz more soundz than most other languagez, Nooalf can be used to spell many uv them quite accurately.


Hmmm... how successful is it with Swedish or any of the Chinese dialects?

You have the same spelling that must be pronounced in certain very specific ways -- the length of the key sounds, how you accent or emphasize certain key elements in the words can mean dramatically different things. These languages have far more nuances than English, French, Spanish or even Russian. Same goes for certain African languages.

The only thing "poor" about how language is being "taught" in today's schools is the fact that a.) Teachers aren't enthused and/or able to do what it is needed for making it easier, more fun, and practical due to the deals with text book publishers and of course the stubbornness (in the U.S. at least), to not keep up with what works in the rest of the English speaking world. b.) Proper language is not longer being practiced in the "real" world. From Ghetto to graduates from Ivy league schools we find an abundance of people who brutalize the language, preferring slang over proper terms and who no longer view "foul language" (swearing) as being an example of poor education and expression/communication ability. c.) we have people like you and those that encouraged other bastardize spelling tactics like Ebonics, poisoning the minds of young people (in particular) while handing them a weapon by which they can rebel and do so via language forms that negate the idea of effective COMMUNICATION -- techniques that build walls rather than allowing them to overcome barriers.

Slowly we are seeing a handful of educators being brave enough to toss the way things have been, out the window; the 1950's/60's way of doing things is outmoded and must be replaced with techniques that take kids and teaching out of the Victorian mode, while retaining the pride and practicality of tradition. For this several legitimate advancements have come along that are frequently shot down by boards of education because of political horse pucky and reindeer games vs. honest focus on the kids, the times and how to be effective vs. imposing. The schools that have dared to go against the proverbial grain haven't just given the world a crop of wonderfully intelligent and eager to learn more type young people, the areas they are in have seen crime-rates drop and property values raise because good education raises community pride. It becomes a wave that forces everyone to want to do and be more and so positive change happens.

If you visit those "3rd world nations" in which English is the common tongue, such as India. You will not see them even remotely tolerant of your silliness. These are nations that take pride on their education and being A PART OF the global culture as intellectual superiors to many nations (including the U.S.) where English (in this case) is the national tongue. I find it both, embarrassing as well as inspiring. Then again, it was through our contributions that these nations were empowered and our loss of focus that has resulted in our students being neutered. So please, take your alien thinking back to Comicon where it belongs so that the children of this society can actually LEARN something of genuine value and long-term benefit.
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Re: Howdy

Postby JO 753 » 15 Jun 2011, 06:02

Craig Browning wrote:I have the funny feeling the Alien Probe when too deep in your case and struck the brain stem. . . :roll:


Yes. Thats wut happened. Az a rezult, I am only twice az smart az you!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: (Sorry, but you started it.)

Hmmm... how successful is it with Swedish or any of the Chinese dialects?


Frum wut I'v been told, it duznt work at all for Chineze. Frum the little Swedish I've heard, it probably works OK.

You have the same spelling that must be pronounced in certain very specific ways -- the length of the key sounds, how you accent or emphasize certain key elements in the words can mean dramatically different things. These languages have far more nuances than English, French, Spanish or even Russian. Same goes for certain African languages.


Nooalf iz not intended to perfectly reprezent actual speech. That woud require a rediculously complex symbology, which woud hav no practical application in this age uv cheap audio recording technology. It iz a spelling system. It only needz to efficiently indicate the fonemez uv the vocabulary.
IF PEPL TuK KeR UV XeR TiM aZ DILIJeNTLE aZ XA TuK KeR UV XeR MUNE, XA WuDNT SPeND SO MUC TiM TAKING KeR UV XeR MUNE.
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Re: Howdy

Postby Craig Browning » 17 Jun 2011, 02:39

It iz a spelling system. It only needz to efficiently indicate the fonemez uv the vocabulary.


WRONG and on at least two major levels;

For Starters, what is the advantage of teaching someone how to deliberately misspell words? No one will not win a spelling bee based on such an argument.

As to your other point, maybe I should note something I was taught in the 3rd & 4th grades. . . you will generally find it noted in the front pages of the average DICTION-ARY -- the various symbols that denote long & short vowel usage as well as word breakdowns similar to what was mentioned above by TS.

fonemez uv


What the f*&k does that mean? I can't for the life of me, make sense of it -- please, SPEAK ENGLISH!

BTW... English is not "dead" even though it is not akin to what old William wrote or even the works given us a few short generations ago. Language evolves but, as I've noted, it usually evolves slowly, far more slow than the forced route of change we've seen in the past decade alone. Like all languages, it will "reinvent" itself over time; with the multitude of "systems" that are being argued as being "legit" and even "superior" to traditional language skills however, how do we know which one is the "right" system to depend upon and why is it so? More importantly, which of these bright ideas create the least amount of chasm when it comes to generational comprehension? As noted above, I can't make hide nor hair out of that term, so how can the use of such technique add to the fluency of communication and our ability to stand on mutual soil when in the process of negotiation and legal-writ?

The phonic method notes by TS in regards to his brother is sound -- logical but likewise "therapeutic" -- what is needed by a specific individual or "type" but not something that should be forced into the lives of humanity altogether. Any legal contract or project presentation written & presented using that method would typically be thrown into the trash before the first page had been read from start to finish and the recipient instantly classified as being an IDIOT. That is, if the recipient hasn't be briefed and brought into an understanding on things ahead of time.

:idea: Oh! I did notice how you likewise enjoy the deliberate use of your silliness when talking with those who oppose your system but when you find one that supports your views the style suddenly returns to PROPER language spelling and format. This is a nuance that sustains my original perception of you being a poor little rich kid with a head filled with idealism and little real life experience in which such shit don't float. . . or don't even matter. You are the typical young antagonist who has chosen to use language as your batten -- your ram-rod against "the system" and "old horse" culture. I'd be amiss if I didn't suggest you get some critical, no-bars-hold psychological help from a conservative therapist (vs. a liberal thinker that will approve of you all the way down the list). ;)
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Re: Howdy

Postby JO 753 » 17 Jun 2011, 06:59

JO 753 wrote:If you really want to debate this seriously, Craig, you shoud read Krazy JOz Bad Lojik Skeet Shooting Club at nooalf.com first.


Didnt bother, did you?

All your arguments are going to be nonsense until you have gone thru the arguments prezented there and sumhow managed to come up with sumthing original and valid.

You cant expect me or anybody else reading this to take your 'superior proper education' stance seriously if you dont have the discipline to research the subject you are commenting on. And you shoud go back and edit you syntax, punctuation and spelling for the same reazon.

There wuz a guy like you in the Skeptics Society Forum. Kept building paper mache 'arguments' and lobbing insults. Never bothered me, but it wuz really a waste uv time for me to have to destroy the same krap over and over. He seemed basicly intelligent, like you, but never in the year or 2 that he stayed did he read even the 1st page uv the site.

It wuz like sum skinny nerd stepping into the ring with Mike Tyson and getting nokt out instantly, but then hez lying on the mat dreaming that hez putting up a good fite. He woud wake up a week later at home, not remembering the hospital stay and not learning a lesson that he shoud at least work out and take boxing lessonz. If he did that and had any brainz left, he woud finally realize he didnt hav a prayer. Insted, hez back at the arena the next day, full uv piss & vinegar, ready only to amuze the crowd before the real fite (wich woudnt be that much longer, kuz its freekin Mike Tyson!).
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Re: Howdy

Postby Arouet » 17 Jun 2011, 20:01

Ummmm, I haven't noticed your new form of spelling taking over the English speaking world. Maybe a little premature to be comparing yourself to Mike Tyson!
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Re: Howdy

Postby Craig Browning » 18 Jun 2011, 02:08

I'm feeling as if I'm dealing with one of Winston's YouTube Genius types here :roll:

I have to stop, I simply don't need the added stress such stupidity brings to life.
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