View Active Topics          Latest 100 Topics          View Your Posts          Switch to Mobile

Greetings all! My virgin post...

Introduce yourself here!

Re: Greetings all! My virgin post...

Postby Arouet » 30 Sep 2010, 03:26

Scepcop wrote:The oxford lecture does not mention reptilians. The audience there were not Icke fans. They were just curious enthusiasts coming to see what he was about. Thus, Icke had to give them "baby steps" rather than too much at once. That's what you have to do with newcomers who are still indoctrinated with the system's version of reality.

I am not sure about the reptilian thing. But I am open to it. But it's not as far fetched as you think. Carl Sagan talked about the R-complex in our brain, which is reptilian. So we all have a reptilian brain. Science confirms this. So intelligent reptiles aren't as far fetched as you think. According to probability and science, humans should not exist either.


You are misunderstanding that. We all evolve from common-ancestors. Here is wiki on the current conception of this:

Because the basal ganglia are found in the forebrains of all modern vertebrates, they most likely date to the common evolutionary ancestor of the vertebrates, more than 500 million years ago, rather than to the origin of reptiles


All living things evolve from the same place, so of course there are going to be aspects of our bodies that are also found in other animals.

Plus like I said before, there is no missing link found in Evolution and no transitional species found, thus no evidence of macro evolution.


There is no such thing as a missing link or transitional species. Or rather: we're all transitional species. Evolution is a progression. WHen you find a new fossil all it does is create another "missing link". In any event, the fossil record is not what macro-evolutionary theory is based on. It supports it, but is completely unnecessary. Even if there were no fossils, we'd still have copious amounts of evidence for macro-evolution. Read this:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

The amount of evidence for macro-evolution is substantial. And the fossil record supports it. We could go into evolution if you want...
User avatar
Arouet
 
Posts: 2544
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 03:07






Re: Greetings all! My virgin post...

Postby The_Grand_Illusion » 30 Sep 2010, 13:47

Does he have experimental evidence that demonstrates this? Even if there is telepathy, why assume that its quantum?

Yes, please avail yourself of Goswami's books and/or the other books and studies that show the indisputable reality of telepathy (actually, from memory, Goswami doesn't deal with telepathy per se, but neurological entanglement (brainwaves, etc). See Radin's books for telepathy. I've given you plenty of leads to pursue on this stuff! The reason the quantum explanation makes the most sense regarding neurological entanglement is that there is no detectable transfer of energy in familiar space-time, and the interactions are instantaneous in many cases. Quantum entanglement is therefore the best explanation there is for these effects so far. It's the most obvious and logical conclusion to reach, as Goswami notes.

Open mind does not mean just accept anything someone says. From what I've seen, Icke's evidence for the reptilians is exceptionally weak. Problem is, its the whole underpinnings for the rest of his conspiracy theory. I mean, the whole goal of this conspiracy is to produce low energy bad emotions in people, right? If you lose the reptilians, you lose the motive for the conspiracy. At least the motives he's laid out. It's also tied into his whole: everything is a hologram, for which he also has not a lick of evidence. Even if there are parrallel universes, that doesn't mean that nothing really exists!


Ok, look, having not read his stuff you can't really have any idea of what he's talking about or the evidence in support--it's just not gonna happen. Go read the books and THEN we can talk about Icke without me having to correct every misconception you express(!) (Slightly exasperated.) I've even offered to send my own PDFs on this but you seem to prefer to keep things in an abstract hypothetical land based on snippets of his presentations here and there so you don't have to deal with any actual evidence presented. His talks are not really intended to be evidence-based and therefore aren't going to leave you any the wiser unfortunately. I've tried (just for the sake of discussion) explaining the reptilian angle to people of a similar mind-set as yours and sooner rather than later I find myself having to correct a million misconceptions and spoon feed every relevant data point, and it becomes really exhausting. Most people pretend they are interested but prove that they are not by not doing any leg work for themselves--and why would someone who does do the work want to expend all that energy? As I've said repeatedly, if I were to recommend books to you, they wouldn't be Icke's. His worldview represents far too radical a departure for most, without gradually building up to it. Incidentally, my own research over the last 7 years supports most of what he says, but the amount of information I've gone through to be able to agree with most of his material is pretty vast, and most people will never have that kind of time on their hands--so I understand why some people don't "get" it at all. Besides, if you don't "get" it, it's no skin off my nose--I honestly don't care to convince any one person of these ideas.

No one would say its so unlikely as to be impossible. Of course such a conspiracy is possible. The key word is "unlikely". It is extroadinarily unlikely that such a vast consipracy could function for so long. People talk. People are not good at keeping secrets. Each person added to a conspiracy weakens the links. It's not that its impossible, but the sheer size of the conspiracies Icke sets out has to be a tick in the "unlikely"column and you'd need some pretty convincing evidence otherwise. The fact that once someone is rich and powerful they tend to stay that way for a long time, even over generations, is not evidence of anything other than life is not fair, and wealth and power tends to give people tools that allows them to continue.


With the HIV stuff, Icke is bringing his conspiracy to the entire medical establishment! Vast numbers of independant researchers who all have to be in on it.[/quote]

The subjective assessment of "unlikely" is just an opinion, and when it is not backed by much research in the relevant areas, it's not going to carry much weight. The only thing that matters in terms of some kind of conspiracy or secretive agenda is "what's the evidence?" Now, if we leave the reptilians out of it--which I'm VERY happy to do--we can see that it is an extremely well documented fact that there is a conspiratorial oligarchy that runs this planet and does not do so in the interests of peasants like you or I (in practical terms, whether they do it on behalf of lizards, one another, the flying spaghetti monster or whatever, doesn't really matter to me). They admit it in their own writings and government doc's, for goodness sake (no "theories" needed). We don't need to bring lizards into it to prove we are being screwed in monumental ways and being brainwashed into liking (or at least tolerating) it. I wouldn't know where to even begin listing books for you to read up on this subject. It is truly vast and not at all simple...

What have you read on it so far? Maybe I can suggest something (besides Icke)... (you could start by studying who controls the medical establishment *chuckles*. you don't need a "conspiracy" involving every medical professional, but if you can train them to think in a certain way, and see certain things and NOT see certain other things, then they can be used to further an agenda that harms not just the people they know but even themselves!)
Brendan D. Murphy is the author of the forthcoming book series on the nature of reality and consciousness, The Grand Illusion: A Synthesis of Science, Mysticism and the Occult. Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/The-Grand-Illusion-TGI/151764238172173?ref=ts

It's all just a dream, and the dream is dreaming itself...
User avatar
The_Grand_Illusion
 
Posts: 48
Joined: 30 Aug 2010, 20:20

Re: Greetings all! My virgin post...

Postby Arouet » 30 Sep 2010, 21:01

When I hear a lecture from an expert on a subject, it usually comes out pretty quickly whether they can back up what they have to say or not. It's possible, I guess, that Icke simply holds back in his lectures, and just deals with things on a cursory and superficial basis and leaves the meat for his books. I'll be surprised but I'll give his book a scan.

I've been trying to get out of you some reason for why Icke is worth the effort, and you seem to respond with: he is, trust me, but its too hard to explain. There are a lot of crackpots out there, and we all have limited time, no one can research everything. So far, based on your comments, and Icke's lectures, I suspect he has very little of his primary theories that would withstand rigourous analaysis. It's easy to cherry pick and connect dots and call it a pattern. But you can't ignore the evidence that doesn't support your point of view. Everything that I've seen from Icke suggests that so far. I'll leaf through his book.
User avatar
Arouet
 
Posts: 2544
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 03:07

Re: Greetings all! My virgin post...

Postby The_Grand_Illusion » 01 Oct 2010, 07:09

Arouet wrote:When I hear a lecture from an expert on a subject, it usually comes out pretty quickly whether they can back up what they have to say or not. It's possible, I guess, that Icke simply holds back in his lectures, and just deals with things on a cursory and superficial basis and leaves the meat for his books. I'll be surprised but I'll give his book a scan.

I've been trying to get out of you some reason for why Icke is worth the effort, and you seem to respond with: he is, trust me, but its too hard to explain. There are a lot of crackpots out there, and we all have limited time, no one can research everything. So far, based on your comments, and Icke's lectures, I suspect he has very little of his primary theories that would withstand rigourous analaysis. It's easy to cherry pick and connect dots and call it a pattern. But you can't ignore the evidence that doesn't support your point of view. Everything that I've seen from Icke suggests that so far. I'll leaf through his book.


I'm telling you that I wouldn't recommend Icke to you and you somehow get out of that "he's worth it, trust me..." ??

As I said, I'd be suggesting other reading material relating to his main themes (reptoids notwithstanding). It's easier to digest other harsh realities down the rabbit hole without shapeshifters thrown into the mix... *chuckle

But still, enjoy...
Brendan D. Murphy is the author of the forthcoming book series on the nature of reality and consciousness, The Grand Illusion: A Synthesis of Science, Mysticism and the Occult. Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/The-Grand-Illusion-TGI/151764238172173?ref=ts

It's all just a dream, and the dream is dreaming itself...
User avatar
The_Grand_Illusion
 
Posts: 48
Joined: 30 Aug 2010, 20:20

Re: Greetings all! My virgin post...

Postby Arouet » 01 Oct 2010, 08:48

The_Grand_Illusion wrote:
Arouet wrote:When I hear a lecture from an expert on a subject, it usually comes out pretty quickly whether they can back up what they have to say or not. It's possible, I guess, that Icke simply holds back in his lectures, and just deals with things on a cursory and superficial basis and leaves the meat for his books. I'll be surprised but I'll give his book a scan.

I've been trying to get out of you some reason for why Icke is worth the effort, and you seem to respond with: he is, trust me, but its too hard to explain. There are a lot of crackpots out there, and we all have limited time, no one can research everything. So far, based on your comments, and Icke's lectures, I suspect he has very little of his primary theories that would withstand rigourous analaysis. It's easy to cherry pick and connect dots and call it a pattern. But you can't ignore the evidence that doesn't support your point of view. Everything that I've seen from Icke suggests that so far. I'll leaf through his book.


I'm telling you that I wouldn't recommend Icke to you and you somehow get out of that "he's worth it, trust me..." ??

As I said, I'd be suggesting other reading material relating to his main themes (reptoids notwithstanding). It's easier to digest other harsh realities down the rabbit hole without shapeshifters thrown into the mix... *chuckle

But still, enjoy...


Unless I'm misreading you, you feel Icke is worth it, but one needs to babystep their way to getting to his more bizarre conclusions.
User avatar
Arouet
 
Posts: 2544
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 03:07

Re: Greetings all! My virgin post...

Postby Scepcop » 01 Oct 2010, 17:10

David Icke - The Man, The Legend



So David Icke Is A Nutter?? What Icke Said in 1991, What One Of The World's Top Physicists Said in 2008

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
User avatar
Scepcop
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: 16 May 2009, 07:29

Re: Greetings all! My virgin post...

Postby The_Grand_Illusion » 01 Oct 2010, 17:48

Unless I'm misreading you, you feel Icke is worth it, but one needs to babystep their way to getting to his more bizarre conclusions.



More or less, dude. I didn't read Icke until I'd read a bunch of other mind-bending stuff on the nature of reality which allowed me to see that there are truly amazing things that undeniably happen in this universe that orthodoxy can't deal with, let alone properly account for (hence the massive pile of unwanted facts under the proverbial mainstream rug). I was "lucky" to have had my mind opened in a major way metaphysically speaking before I encountered Icke, because not only does he hit you with weird "paranormal" material, but he weaves it with some of the most grotesque and disturbing geopolitical realities that are much harder to logically argue against (and are also politically incorrect and taboo), so it's a tough pill to swallow all round (not that we HAVE to believe 100% of what ANYONE says). The metaphysical stuff I was prepared for (hence my openness to his weirder material), but the political/financial/corporate/etc material I wasn't. Ouch. Subsequent research (unfortunately) validated virtually all of what he was saying...! But my search goes on, and I do a LOT of reading along the way so that I don't have to rely on only one man's point of view (as eclectic as it is)...
Brendan D. Murphy is the author of the forthcoming book series on the nature of reality and consciousness, The Grand Illusion: A Synthesis of Science, Mysticism and the Occult. Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/The-Grand-Illusion-TGI/151764238172173?ref=ts

It's all just a dream, and the dream is dreaming itself...
User avatar
The_Grand_Illusion
 
Posts: 48
Joined: 30 Aug 2010, 20:20

Re: Greetings all! My virgin post...

Postby Arouet » 02 Oct 2010, 03:47

The_Grand_Illusion wrote:More or less, dude. I didn't read Icke until I'd read a bunch of other mind-bending stuff on the nature of reality which allowed me to see that there are truly amazing things that undeniably happen in this universe that orthodoxy can't deal with, let alone properly account for (hence the massive pile of unwanted facts under the proverbial mainstream rug). I was "lucky" to have had my mind opened in a major way metaphysically speaking before I encountered Icke, because not only does he hit you with weird "paranormal" material, but he weaves it with some of the most grotesque and disturbing geopolitical realities that are much harder to logically argue against (and are also politically incorrect and taboo), so it's a tough pill to swallow all round (not that we HAVE to believe 100% of what ANYONE says). The metaphysical stuff I was prepared for (hence my openness to his weirder material), but the political/financial/corporate/etc material I wasn't. Ouch. Subsequent research (unfortunately) validated virtually all of what he was saying...! But my search goes on, and I do a LOT of reading along the way so that I don't have to rely on only one man's point of view (as eclectic as it is)...


Undeniable, eh?


Look, there's no question that some nasty shit goes on in this world - politically, socially, etc. There's no question that powerful people in general stay powerful and often exploit others. Clearly this stuff goes on. But it's a far jump from that to massive global conspiracy. Let me ask you: do you think Icke pays due attention to facts that might NOT support the global consipiracy theory?
User avatar
Arouet
 
Posts: 2544
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 03:07

Re: Greetings all! My virgin post...

Postby The_Grand_Illusion » 02 Oct 2010, 14:29

Arouet wrote:
The_Grand_Illusion wrote:More or less, dude. I didn't read Icke until I'd read a bunch of other mind-bending stuff on the nature of reality which allowed me to see that there are truly amazing things that undeniably happen in this universe that orthodoxy can't deal with, let alone properly account for (hence the massive pile of unwanted facts under the proverbial mainstream rug). I was "lucky" to have had my mind opened in a major way metaphysically speaking before I encountered Icke, because not only does he hit you with weird "paranormal" material, but he weaves it with some of the most grotesque and disturbing geopolitical realities that are much harder to logically argue against (and are also politically incorrect and taboo), so it's a tough pill to swallow all round (not that we HAVE to believe 100% of what ANYONE says). The metaphysical stuff I was prepared for (hence my openness to his weirder material), but the political/financial/corporate/etc material I wasn't. Ouch. Subsequent research (unfortunately) validated virtually all of what he was saying...! But my search goes on, and I do a LOT of reading along the way so that I don't have to rely on only one man's point of view (as eclectic as it is)...


Undeniable, eh?


Look, there's no question that some nasty shit goes on in this world - politically, socially, etc. There's no question that powerful people in general stay powerful and often exploit others. Clearly this stuff goes on. But it's a far jump from that to massive global conspiracy. Let me ask you: do you think Icke pays due attention to facts that might NOT support the global consipiracy theory?



(Grin...) Instead of seeking my opinion on it, why don't you find out for yourself? Like I said, I read a lot of stuff so I don't have to rely on one person's perspective and material. But it's useless talking about "THE global conspiracy theory"--there really isn't one, in a sense. There's an AGENDA that is admitted to in various "elite" quarters, and that agenda--referred to as the New World Order--is carried out through many conspiracies/secret plots/plans/agreements, etc, of varying size and importance and through vested interests working for mutual benefit at the suffering and exclusion of the peasant masses. There's no logical question of there NOT being such as agenda since it is admitted to, to some extent, and it's clear to researchers globally that it is NOT in the interests of ordinary people (if it was then why all the secrecy and criminality?). Icke's a strand in the web of researchers, same for any individual, so it's good not to get fixated on just one person. Read widely. Read often. Challenge your beliefs. Then challenge them some more. If you change your mind once make sure it remains open to changing again. The only good belief system is one subject to endless updating. That the New World Order agenda exists is not really up for debate, not when the perpetrators admit it. The question to me personally is: just how deep does the rabbit hole go? And what EXACTLY is the nature of this agenda? There's a long way to go before I'll be satisfied with what I know about it all...

But to answer your question, I think Icke does a pretty good job overall. He has the same 24 hrs in a day the rest of us do...
Brendan D. Murphy is the author of the forthcoming book series on the nature of reality and consciousness, The Grand Illusion: A Synthesis of Science, Mysticism and the Occult. Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/The-Grand-Illusion-TGI/151764238172173?ref=ts

It's all just a dream, and the dream is dreaming itself...
User avatar
The_Grand_Illusion
 
Posts: 48
Joined: 30 Aug 2010, 20:20

Re: Greetings all! My virgin post...

Postby Scepcop » 02 Oct 2010, 21:45

Arouet wrote:There is no such thing as a missing link or transitional species. Or rather: we're all transitional species. Evolution is a progression. WHen you find a new fossil all it does is create another "missing link". In any event, the fossil record is not what macro-evolutionary theory is based on. It supports it, but is completely unnecessary. Even if there were no fossils, we'd still have copious amounts of evidence for macro-evolution. Read this:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

The amount of evidence for macro-evolution is substantial. And the fossil record supports it. We could go into evolution if you want...


Huh? If there is no transitional species, then how did Neanderthals or Australeocepetus (sp?) suddenly "transform" into humans?

How did humans suddenly get intelligence?

If Carl Sagan doesn't know, how do you know?

How come the huge muscle mass of primates suddenly disappeared in humans?

Why are there no human bones in the fossil records before 200,000 years ago?

Can you explain?
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
User avatar
Scepcop
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: 16 May 2009, 07:29

Re: Greetings all! My virgin post...

Postby Scepcop » 02 Oct 2010, 22:42

Arouet wrote:
The_Grand_Illusion wrote:More or less, dude. I didn't read Icke until I'd read a bunch of other mind-bending stuff on the nature of reality which allowed me to see that there are truly amazing things that undeniably happen in this universe that orthodoxy can't deal with, let alone properly account for (hence the massive pile of unwanted facts under the proverbial mainstream rug). I was "lucky" to have had my mind opened in a major way metaphysically speaking before I encountered Icke, because not only does he hit you with weird "paranormal" material, but he weaves it with some of the most grotesque and disturbing geopolitical realities that are much harder to logically argue against (and are also politically incorrect and taboo), so it's a tough pill to swallow all round (not that we HAVE to believe 100% of what ANYONE says). The metaphysical stuff I was prepared for (hence my openness to his weirder material), but the political/financial/corporate/etc material I wasn't. Ouch. Subsequent research (unfortunately) validated virtually all of what he was saying...! But my search goes on, and I do a LOT of reading along the way so that I don't have to rely on only one man's point of view (as eclectic as it is)...


Undeniable, eh?


Look, there's no question that some nasty shit goes on in this world - politically, socially, etc. There's no question that powerful people in general stay powerful and often exploit others. Clearly this stuff goes on. But it's a far jump from that to massive global conspiracy. Let me ask you: do you think Icke pays due attention to facts that might NOT support the global consipiracy theory?


How do you know that for sure? There are whistleblowers who were in elite circles who say that there is a global conspiracy agenda.

How can you be 100 percent sure there isn't? If there were, do you think they'd admit it? Ever think of that?

Is every "cover story" to you absolutely true?

Are murders set up to look like suicides, never exposed?

Also, how do you explain these Satanic rituals? Listen to them:

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
User avatar
Scepcop
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: 16 May 2009, 07:29

Re: Greetings all! My virgin post...

Postby hero01hero » 08 Oct 2010, 14:55

HELLO,

this is my virgin post to .
"newbie" i just interest in topic will
discuss in here :lol:
hero01hero
 
Posts: 1
Joined: 08 Oct 2010, 14:53

Previous

Return to Introduce Yourself

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests