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Skeptics, are you more qualified than a NORAD tactical dir?

Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.

Skeptics, are you more qualified than a NORAD tactical dir?

Postby Scepcop » 07 Nov 2009, 03:12

Skeptics,
What are your qualifications in aviation and NORAD procedures? Do you know more about it than a former NORAD tactical director?

http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html

Capt. Daniel Davis, U.S. Army – Former U.S. Army Air Defense Officer and NORAD Tac Director. Turbine engineering specialist. Founder and former CEO of Turbine Technology Services Corp., a turbine (jet engine) services and maintenance company (15 years). Former Senior Manager at General Electric Turbine (jet) Engine Division (15 years). Decorated with the Bronze Star and the Soldiers Medal for bravery under fire and the Purple Heart for injuries sustained in Viet Nam. Also served in the Army Air Defense Command as Nike Missile Battery Control Officer for the Chicago-Milwaukee Defense Area. Private pilot.

* Statement to this website 3/23/07: "As a former General Electric Turbine engineering specialist and manager and then CEO of a turbine engineering company, I can guarantee that none of the high tech, high temperature alloy engines on any of the four planes that crashed on 9/11 would be completely destroyed, burned, shattered or melted in any crash or fire. Wrecked, yes, but not destroyed. Where are all of those engines, particularly at the Pentagon? If jet powered aircraft crashed on 9/11, those engines, plus wings and tail assembly, would be there.

Additionally, in my experience as an officer in NORAD as a Tactical Director for the Chicago-Milwaukee Air Defense and as a current private pilot, there is no way that an aircraft on instrument flight plans (all commercial flights are IFR) would not be intercepted when they deviate from their flight plan, turn off their transponders, or stop communication with Air Traffic Control. No way! With very bad luck, perhaps one could slip by, but no there's no way all four of them could!

Finally, going over the hill and highway and crashing into the Pentagon right at the wall/ground interface is nearly impossible for even a small slow single engine airplane and no way for a 757. Maybe the best pilot in the world could accomplish that but not these unskilled "terrorists".

Attempts to obscure facts by calling them a "Conspiracy Theory" does not change the truth. It seems, "Something is rotten in the State."


* Editor's note: For more information on the impact at the Pentagon, see General Stubblebine, Colonel Nelson, Commander Muga, Lt. Col. Kwiatkowski, Lt. Col. Latas, Major Rokke, Capt. Wittenberg, Barbara Honegger, April Gallop, Colonel Bunel, and Steve DeChiaro.


* Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:

"The government conspiracy theory does not hold up to scrutiny. As a professional with over 30 years experience working with gas turbines (jet engines) and fuels - kerosene (jet fuel) does not burn in any open flame hot enough to effect steel - well under 1000 deg F. Also bogus are the explanations regarding why no planes were intercepted. SOP [Standard Operating Procedure] is they are always, always intercepted if they stray off course and/or turn off the transponder like these flights all did. No command decision needed. Has our government ever been untruthful to us?" http://www.ae911truth.org
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Skeptics, are you more qualified than a NORAD tactical dir?

Postby Nostradamus » 07 Nov 2009, 11:13

Additionally, in my experience as an officer in NORAD as a Tactical Director for the Chicago-Milwaukee Air Defense and as a current private pilot, there is no way that an aircraft on instrument flight plans (all commercial flights are IFR) would not be intercepted when they deviate from their flight plan, turn off their transponders, or stop communication with Air Traffic Control. No way! With very bad luck, perhaps one could slip by, but no there's no way all four of them could!


The intercept is initiate by the FAA.
NORAD before 9/11 only had 14 aircraft for intercepts in the entire US.
NORAD was not alerted by the FAA until after 2 planes had hit targets.

Why wasn't NORAD alerted earlier? Good question. Glad you thought of it. There are thousands of flights a day in the US. There are thousands of planes in the air at any moment over the US. It is not unusual to lose contact with some of them during the course of the day. As the man points out all 4 did not slip by. NORAD was alerted before the third plane hit its target.
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Re: Skeptics, are you more qualified than a NORAD tactical dir?

Postby Nostradamus » 07 Nov 2009, 11:23

This is what Davis said:
"As a former General Electric Turbine engineering specialist and manager and then CEO of a turbine engineering company, I can guarantee that none of the high tech, high temperature alloy engines on any of the four planes that crashed on 9/11 would be completely destroyed, burned, shattered or melted in any crash or fire. Wrecked, yes, but not destroyed. Where are all of those engines, particularly at the Pentagon? If jet powered aircraft crashed on 9/11, those engines, plus wings and tail assembly, would be there.


Response:
Capt. Daniel Davis: Apparently ignorant of the numerous photos of a battered but intact engine on the streets of NY, numerous large engine parts inside the Pentagon, and of a battered but intact engine found buried in the soft dirt near Shanksville, Davis stated in March 2007 “as a former General Electric Turbine engineering specialist and manager and then CEO of a turbine engineering company, I can guarantee that none of the high tech, high temperature alloy engines on any of the four planes that crashed on 9/11 would be completely destroyed, burned, shattered or melted in any crash or fire. Wrecked, yes, but not destroyed. Where are all of those engines, particularly at the Pentagon? If jet powered aircraft crashed on 9/11, those engines, plus wings and tail assembly, would be there.”


Finally, going over the hill and highway and crashing into the Pentagon right at the wall/ground interface is nearly impossible for even a small slow single engine airplane and no way for a 757. Maybe the best pilot in the world could accomplish that but not these unskilled "terrorists".


It appears Davis provides no proof of being a pilot and this is his guess.
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Re: Skeptics, are you more qualified than a NORAD tactical dir?

Postby Nostradamus » 07 Nov 2009, 11:25

SOP [Standard Operating Procedure] is they are always, always intercepted if they stray off course and/or turn off the transponder like these flights all did. No command decision needed. Has our government ever been untruthful to us?


The SOP has the decision to intercept begin with the FAA. Of course we are talking the SOP at the time of 9/11 and not the SOP today. Only someone like the religion teacher turned truther would make the error of misrepresenting the SOP at the time of 9/11.
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Re: Skeptics, are you more qualified than a NORAD tactical dir?

Postby Scepcop » 08 Nov 2009, 23:20

Nostradamus wrote:
Additionally, in my experience as an officer in NORAD as a Tactical Director for the Chicago-Milwaukee Air Defense and as a current private pilot, there is no way that an aircraft on instrument flight plans (all commercial flights are IFR) would not be intercepted when they deviate from their flight plan, turn off their transponders, or stop communication with Air Traffic Control. No way! With very bad luck, perhaps one could slip by, but no there's no way all four of them could!


The intercept is initiate by the FAA.
NORAD before 9/11 only had 14 aircraft for intercepts in the entire US.
NORAD was not alerted by the FAA until after 2 planes had hit targets.

Why wasn't NORAD alerted earlier? Good question. Glad you thought of it. There are thousands of flights a day in the US. There are thousands of planes in the air at any moment over the US. It is not unusual to lose contact with some of them during the course of the day. As the man points out all 4 did not slip by. NORAD was alerted before the third plane hit its target.


You're forgetting that he used to work for NORAD and he damn sure knows a hell of a lot more about NORAD than your speculations. Damn. Pay some respect to people who are more qualified than you, will you?

People who work for NORAD know that your explanations cannot be. You are just guessing and not qualified to try to explain NORAD procedures. Who are you compared to professionals who work in NORAD? Sheesh.

You also forget about the war games that day that confused them. Many war games were going on, including hijacked scenarios. You forget all that.

Rumsfeld and Cheney changed NORAD's procedures just before 9/11 for a while. Watch the "Zero" film I referred, a Boston air traffic controller will explain to you why.

You got a lot to learn dude.
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Re: Skeptics, are you more qualified than a NORAD tactical dir?

Postby Nostradamus » 08 Nov 2009, 23:33

You're forgetting that he used to work for NORAD and he damn sure knows a hell of a lot more about NORAD than your speculations. Damn. Pay some respect to people who are more qualified than you, will you?


You would be wrong ... again. This is not a matter of qualifications. I stated facts.

People who work for NORAD know that your explanations cannot be. You are just guessing and not qualified to try to explain NORAD procedures. Who are you compared to professionals who work in NORAD? Sheesh.


Again I stated facts. You are the one guessing and misrepresenting and refusing understand the facts.

You also forget about the war games that day that confused them. Many war games were going on, including hijacked scenarios. You forget all that.


Provide the evidence. You claim that pseudoskeptics believe without examining the evidence. That is why you are a pseudoskeptic.

Rumsfeld and Cheney changed NORAD's procedures just before 9/11 for a while. Watch the "Zero" film I referred, a Boston air traffic controller will explain to you why.


Provide the evidence and not a reference to a movie. I am not going to waste my time watching an entire movie to find the lie. I believe that you have already posted links to the movie with zero content. It shouldn't be an effort for you to provide the so-called evidence.
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Re: Skeptics, are you more qualified than a NORAD tactical dir?

Postby Nostradamus » 08 Nov 2009, 23:35

NORAD before 9/11 only had 14 aircraft for intercepts in the entire US.

I've already stated that. Give an example of an intercept after 9/11.
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Re: Skeptics, are you more qualified than a NORAD tactical dir?

Postby ProfWag » 08 Nov 2009, 23:41

Yes Scepcop, we are. I posted the below under the MIT/Jeff King thread which went unanswered by you so I'm confident that you will not respond to this one as well, but here it is again for people who actually like to do research about a topic:

I would like to point out how tricky you conspiracy theorists are in hoping that people don't actually read what they are saying. Normally, I would have missed this as well, but my uncle (I've mentioned him before in his more current role with the FAA) actually WAS the former Deputy Commander of Operations at NORAD, holding the rank of Brig Gen (bio avail upon request through PM). When I see NORAD, my interest is peaked which is why I looked at this a little closer.
Anyway, Scepcop says "here is an example from a former tactical director of NORAD. That sounds quite impressive, until you read on. First, he was a Captain. Anyone that knows anything about military rank knows that a Captain is an almost automatic promotion after 4 years of service and they have very little hands on experience. Then, as you read on, it says he was a Tac Dir. for the Chicago-Milwaukee Air Defense. Unfortunately, I'm no longer impressed with his credentials...
Just wanted to make that clear.

I would also like to emphasize that anyone with inside knowledge of NORAD is based out of Colorado Springs, not Milwaukee.
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Re: Skeptics, are you more qualified than a NORAD tactical d

Postby rakesh23 » 11 Feb 2017, 22:18

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