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Top secret government facility holds Flight 93 remains

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Top secret government facility holds Flight 93 remains

Postby Scepcop » 16 Oct 2009, 06:07

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Re: Top secret government facility holds Flight 93 remains

Postby Nostradamus » 16 Oct 2009, 09:06

Some of my work is stored in Iron Mountain. Whoopee!

I remember the first time getting my work ready for permanent storage at Iron Mountain.

And for the record, Iron Mountain is not a government facility. It isn't even secret. The company is traded on the NY stock exchange.

http://www.ironmountain.com/

and for those with less time on their hands go here:
http://www.ironmountain.com/forms/underground/

And even a wiki article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Mountain_Incorporated

So once again a fact is misrepresented by the foremost pseudoskeptic here. Posting without checking.
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Re: Top secret government facility holds Flight 93 remains

Postby WhiteTiger » 16 Oct 2009, 11:55

Nostradamus wrote:So once again a fact is misrepresented by the foremost pseudoskeptic here.


After reading that amusingly slanted post I'm forced to agree, however not as regards scepcop. Taking the literalist interpretation that "top secret" means an unknown or anonymous facility is silly.

It's quite clear even in that broadcast news segment that there are in fact sections of the facility leased to govt agencies, and in the case of things such as the flight 93 materials, are you truly so naive as to think that a govt clearance, perhaps as high as top secret isn't required to access those sections?

To assume or imply that top secret automatically means the entire location itself strikes me as more than a tad skewed. But then misdirection and conflation are established pseudo skeptic tactics.



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Re: Top secret government facility holds Flight 93 remains

Postby Nostradamus » 16 Oct 2009, 12:12

are you truly so naive as to think that a govt clearance, perhaps as high as top secret isn't required to access those sections?


Are you so naive to think that the contents of the site has top secret information in it? Show me the evidence. Do you have any evidence to substantiate the claim. So far all you've done is use the logical fallacy of begging the question - a pseudoskeptic method.
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Re: Top secret government facility holds Flight 93 remains

Postby WhiteTiger » 16 Oct 2009, 12:29

Dear pot, yep, I'm black. signed, kettle ;)

Logical inversion can be useful for demonstrating fallacies, huh?



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Re: Top secret government facility holds Flight 93 remains

Postby Nostradamus » 16 Oct 2009, 12:37

Dear tiger, years ago I worked for a place that had a requirement that everything that was finished had to be stored in Iron Mtn. So people would say finished? finished? finished? Who doesn't want to tweak here and there to improve something as they learn more over time. Didn't take long to learn that it was better to Iron Mtn sooner than later. So I have all sorts of documents of really no value filling a hole in the ground.

Maybe if we place enough paper in that hole in the ground and in other holes in the ground a dent can be made in rising level of atmospheric CO2. Just kidding. :lol:

Thanks for your input. Made me think.
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Re: Top secret government facility holds Flight 93 remains

Postby WhiteTiger » 16 Oct 2009, 13:20

Bit of a followup on your question concerning evidence of classified govt materials:

Job Summary

A dynamic, highly, motivated, and well-organized individual with prior experience administering US government security policies and procedures to serve as the Facility Security Officer (FSO).
(emphasis added)

Taken from this Iron Mountain employment advertisement.

Considering that even the identities of an admitted 95% of Iron Mountain clients are unpublicised, that is as close as I could come off the cuff to finding online documentation that the govt classification system and protocols apply to at least some of the contents of Iron Mountain. Btw, "top secret" isn't actually all that tough a security clearance to obtain nor apply to materials, though it historically was once close to what the label implies.



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Re: Top secret government facility holds Flight 93 remains

Postby Scepcop » 16 Oct 2009, 14:59

Dude, I only posted the title of the video. I was not trying to misrepresent anything. If you have a problem with the title, email the person who uploaded the video.
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Re: Top secret government facility holds Flight 93 remains

Postby Nostradamus » 16 Oct 2009, 19:24

The company I worked for is not listed as a client and it was not into any secrets. It just considered anything sent to Iron Mtn as highly confidential and everything in final form was sent to Iron Mtn. Kind of a catch 22.
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Re: Top secret government facility holds Flight 93 remains

Postby Nostradamus » 16 Oct 2009, 19:27

Dude, I only posted the title of the video. I was not trying to misrepresent anything. If you have a problem with the title, email the person who uploaded the video.


If someone misrepresents an issue and then you continue to misrepresent the material then you also misrepresent.

That's no excuse. Think dude think. That's what differentiates a skeptic from a pseudoskeptic.
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Re: Top secret government facility holds Flight 93 remains

Postby NinjaPuppy » 16 Oct 2009, 22:29

Nostradamus wrote:
Dude, I only posted the title of the video. I was not trying to misrepresent anything. If you have a problem with the title, email the person who uploaded the video.


If someone misrepresents an issue and then you continue to misrepresent the material then you also misrepresent.

That's no excuse. Think dude think. That's what differentiates a skeptic from a pseudoskeptic.

What excuse? It's a video of interest that was put here for discussion. I don't believe anyone made any claims at all as to the authenticity of the title or the contents. Certainly SCEPCOP didn't.

I can't recall off the top of my head, who it was claimed that SCEPCOP doesn't question things about people who question the government. Please excuse me I am just starting my second cup of coffee so my brain is still half asleep so I'm not really into searching a ton of posts to find the exact quote. Anyway, it seems to me that your initial commentary was most excellent as you had personal knowledge to offer into this topic.

However, your closing comment "So once again a fact is misrepresented by the foremost pseudoskeptic here. Posting without checking." is completely wrong. Unless you were speaking of yourself. Since no claims to or of this video were made by SCEPCOP, other than it being put up for discussion, there can be no misrepresentation of facts by him. The fact is, that this is a video and the title of this video was posted as written. It's ashame actually, since there are many avenues for good discussion on something of this nature. For instance: How the media skews the perception of facts, bad tv reporting, media claims not fully researched and perpetuating or establishing falsehoods, the remains of flight 93 being stored in this facility, the facility existing at all, some of the contents shown stored in that facility, and the list goes on. At least WhiteTiger offered some great commentary and opened up some of those avenues for expansion.
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