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Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.

Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby NinjaPuppy » 21 Sep 2012, 09:46

So as not to leave out your last question:
The chances of a 'deep throat' coming out of somewhere are uncertain, so why not start a few threads of research of your own?

I've done my share of 9/11 CT research. You'd have to do some back reading from many of the different topics in this section to understand why I don't start my own.

Long story short... I watched the events of that tragic day live on TV and with a short walk I could see the smoke coming from the towers. I went to ground zero shortly after it happened. I walked through the debris and ash and smelled well, I need not get into any of that. I know many people who lost loved ones on 9/11 and watched a very long funeral procession in my town to honor those who died but who's bodies could not be recovered. The father of my children was on an airplane scheduled to take off from Newark Airport right after the second plane hit and my daughter went to the WTC most mornings with her then boyfriend for coffee. I could not fine either of them that day as phone communication was sketchy. Cell phone towers were jammed with calls that morning and they did not work in that area. Even my land line service was sketchy. I was one of the lucky ones who's immediate family was safe that day but many of my friends were not so lucky.
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby ProfWag » 21 Sep 2012, 21:15

SydneyPSIder wrote:Your next research task, ProfWag (or NinjaPuppy): find out just who had the security contract for those buildings. You might be surprised at the answer.

You will find that it is feasible. You might like to surf the two links supplied by NinjaPuppy, particularly the eyewitness reports, and have a think.

No suprise as I already knew it. Securacom. George's youngest brother was a Director there until a year or so before 9/11. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China or anything else?
Truthfully, I don't need any more research on 9/11. I've done more than my fair share over the years and have yet to find anything changing my mind that 4 planes were hijacked and attempted to fly into U.S. buildings.
I'd like for a CTer to figure out how many people and how long it would take to rig up three buildings for demolition without anyone knowing about it. How 'bout researching that?
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby really? » 21 Sep 2012, 22:05

The only people that do believe it are the fringe minority, the marginalized, those distrustful by nature, people who like to foment make believe conspiracies.
If the government wanted to bring down the towers that could have been done as easily back then as on 9/11 for the same demolition technology existed then as on 9/11. Since it was an unsuccessful attempt should lead one to the conclusion it was an attempt at terrorism by a foreign enemy. Al Qaeda finished the job on 9/11. No reasonable person would for a moment believe that awful tragedy was orchestrated by our government.
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby ProfWag » 22 Sep 2012, 04:22

really? wrote:The only people that do believe it are the fringe minority, the marginalized, those distrustful by nature, people who like to foment make believe conspiracies.
If the government wanted to bring down the towers that could have been done as easily back then as on 9/11 for the same demolition technology existed then as on 9/11. Al Qaeda finished the job on 9/11 that failed to bring down the tower in the early 90's if you recall. No reasonable person would for a moment believe that awful tragedy was orchestrated by our government.

I couldn't agree with you more, really?. I do believe we owe it to everyone to see if there was something more to what happened, and recent reports shows evidence that the Bush Administration did know more than they have let on, but there just hasn't been any substantial evidence presented to date to make me think for one second there was a controlled demolition or that the Government just let the attacks happen.
I mean, think about it for a minute. If the Government was involved in 9/11, don't you think that the Secretary of Defense would have had to have known about it? And he was inside the Pentagon, in his office, when the plane hit. I mean, c'mon, if you knew your building was about to be hit by a plane or a missile, wouldn't you at least head down the road to Starbucks or something?
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby SydneyPSIder » 22 Sep 2012, 08:45

ProfWag wrote:
SydneyPSIder wrote:Your next research task, ProfWag (or NinjaPuppy): find out just who had the security contract for those buildings. You might be surprised at the answer.

You will find that it is feasible. You might like to surf the two links supplied by NinjaPuppy, particularly the eyewitness reports, and have a think.

No suprise as I already knew it. Securacom. George's youngest brother was a Director there until a year or so before 9/11. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China or anything else?
Truthfully, I don't need any more research on 9/11. I've done more than my fair share over the years and have yet to find anything changing my mind that 4 planes were hijacked and attempted to fly into U.S. buildings.
I'd like for a CTer to figure out how many people and how long it would take to rig up three buildings for demolition without anyone knowing about it. How 'bout researching that?

It would have taken about a year, comfortably. Note the 'smoking gun' thesis for the requirement of a 'Pearl Harbor event' in the PNAC document of many years prior, signed off by characters like Paul Wolfowitz. This was planned by the 'govt within the govt' as Osama bin Laden himself put it in his earliest authentic video after the event, denying any involvement.

Security guards can be directed to do many things by their bosses.

Further, I don't know how you can consider the damage at the Pentagon as being caused by a plane like a 757 or 767 at all, plus the impossibility of the turns made by a pilot who could not even fly a single engined Cessna and was previously refused by a flying school to even hire a Cessna despite having taken some classes. Talk about setting up a cover story for a patsy. 12 of the 19 'hijackers' have turned up alive with stolen identities. Why would one person of Arabic background have to steal and somehow doctor a passport of someone else with an Arabic background to masquerade as them? Those Al Qaeda guys sure have some high end resources. They also somehow knew that NORAD was going to be conducting an exercise that exact same day with the exact same parameters, planning this from years out somehow. They sure have good access to confidential US govt military exercises, and years in advance! (The odds of this coincidence happening by chance are, like 7/7, a trillion trillion to one, but the concept of mathematics and probability calculations are lost on the average pseudosceptic who, more than anything, are really into pigheaded denial of threatening thoughts for the sake of their comfort level above all else).

It appears on the evidence of eyewitnesses that Flight 93 was shot down in the air by a USAF jet rather than crashed, contradicting the official story. Debris was reportedly scattered over many miles, and there was no evidence of a plane that had been 'swallowed up completely by the earth', something that has never been seen before in a plane crash anywhere.

The flights had only been created by the FAA a couple of weeks earlier, and were suspiciously, at a peak commuter time of high demand, only 25% full each. It's unknown whether they landed somewhere like Cleveland, Ohio (which was closed down and other airport users were forced to walk miles on a freeway to leave the airport as a 'mystery flight' landed and was disembarked) and passengers were transferred between flights. The planes managed to fly a long way off course for a long time without interception, including crossing over several known radar 'dead zones' between built up areas, possibly landing. Witnesses at the Pentagon saw a commercial plane fly overhead in the wrong direction and disappear to the horizon. All footage confiscated, never to be released to a by now doubting public. Planes of the same model with the same tailplane ID numbers which cannot be reused were snapped in active service by keen planewatchers after they were supposedly destroyed in impacts.

Further, how does 'DNA testing' on competely incinerated and invisible body remains get conducted so quickly to 'identify' most of the passengers? What, all the passengers had pre-existing DNA samples on file? I'm not sure how you can 'prove the identity' of someone with a supposed 'DNA test' on remains when their DNA is not on file anywhere previously.

You guys (pseudosceptics) increasingly just sound like suckers. It's obvious that you are not willing to examine the evidence in any detail, further failing the test of a legitimate scientist or enquirer. I'm struck most by the sheer laziness of posters here, to be honest, that's just how it seems.
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby SydneyPSIder » 22 Sep 2012, 08:55

ProfWag wrote:
really? wrote:The only people that do believe it are the fringe minority, the marginalized, those distrustful by nature, people who like to foment make believe conspiracies.
If the government wanted to bring down the towers that could have been done as easily back then as on 9/11 for the same demolition technology existed then as on 9/11. Al Qaeda finished the job on 9/11 that failed to bring down the tower in the early 90's if you recall. No reasonable person would for a moment believe that awful tragedy was orchestrated by our government.

I couldn't agree with you more, really?. I do believe we owe it to everyone to see if there was something more to what happened, and recent reports shows evidence that the Bush Administration did know more than they have let on, but there just hasn't been any substantial evidence presented to date to make me think for one second there was a controlled demolition or that the Government just let the attacks happen.
I mean, think about it for a minute. If the Government was involved in 9/11, don't you think that the Secretary of Defense would have had to have known about it? And he was inside the Pentagon, in his office, when the plane hit. I mean, c'mon, if you knew your building was about to be hit by a plane or a missile, wouldn't you at least head down the road to Starbucks or something?

Not when you know the missile is pointed at the other side, in the one unrenovated area, where there just happens to be paperwork and auditors working on figuring out why there was an unnaccounted $1 trillion overspend at the Pentagon. All gone now.

Was the DefSec Donny Rumsfeld at that time? Apparently Cheney ordered a stand down when the plane was known to be approaching from some 100 miles out, according to an insider report. He barked 'Follow the orders!' (to not intercept) to his puzzled offsiders as the plane approached, until something hit the Pentagon. Cheney wasn't 'in his office' as the attacks on the WTC were known by then and the Pentagon had swung into operational response mode.

Have a look at the 'thermate/thermite debate' youtube video I posted above, and have a think.
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby NinjaPuppy » 22 Sep 2012, 08:59

SydneyPSIder wrote:Further, how does 'DNA testing' on competely incinerated and invisible body remains get conducted so quickly to 'identify' most of the passengers? What, all the passengers had pre-existing DNA samples on file? I'm not sure how you can 'prove the identity' of someone with a supposed 'DNA test' on remains when their DNA is not on file anywhere previously.

Why does it have to be "on file"? If the remains in question can yield DNA, it's as easy as asking the next of kin for a hairbrush or toothbrush that belonged to the person in question.

SydneyPSIder wrote:You guys (pseudosceptics) increasingly just sound like suckers. It's obvious that you are not willing to examine the evidence in any detail, further failing the test of a legitimate scientist or enquirer. I'm struck most by the sheer laziness of posters here, to be honest, that's just how it seems.

We're not lazy, we're just laid back.
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby SydneyPSIder » 22 Sep 2012, 09:05

NinjaPuppy wrote:
SydneyPSIder wrote:Further, how does 'DNA testing' on competely incinerated and invisible body remains get conducted so quickly to 'identify' most of the passengers? What, all the passengers had pre-existing DNA samples on file? I'm not sure how you can 'prove the identity' of someone with a supposed 'DNA test' on remains when their DNA is not on file anywhere previously.

Why does it have to be "on file"? If the remains in question can yield DNA, it's as easy as asking the next of kin for a hairbrush or toothbrush that belonged to the person in question.


Did that really happen? Dozens and dozens of times over, within such a short space of time? What if someone else, or several people, had used my hairbrush at home, as often happens? I really am 'sceptical'!

NinjaPuppy wrote:
SydneyPSIder wrote:You guys (pseudosceptics) increasingly just sound like suckers. It's obvious that you are not willing to examine the evidence in any detail, further failing the test of a legitimate scientist or enquirer. I'm struck most by the sheer laziness of posters here, to be honest, that's just how it seems.

We're not lazy, we're just laid back.

:D
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby NinjaPuppy » 22 Sep 2012, 09:08

SydneyPSIder wrote:Did that really happen? Dozens and dozens of times over, within such a short space of time? What if someone else, or several people, had used my hairbrush at home, as often happens? I really am 'sceptical'!

A good lab would not just grab a hank of hair, they would first look for any differences in the hair blob. And I do hope that you're not sharing your toothbrush with strangers. :shock:
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby SydneyPSIder » 22 Sep 2012, 09:27

NinjaPuppy wrote:
SydneyPSIder wrote:Did that really happen? Dozens and dozens of times over, within such a short space of time? What if someone else, or several people, had used my hairbrush at home, as often happens? I really am 'sceptical'!

A good lab would not just grab a hank of hair, they would first look for any differences in the hair blob. And I do hope that you're not sharing your toothbrush with strangers. :shock:

OK, so we know 'agents' visited every family and obtained the current toothbrush of the missing person -- even when they were adults living alone, like the supposed 'Mark Bingham'. Or broke into their residences after their death and took a toothbrush. Excellent. Not sure where this is documented anywhere. (And intimates may share a toothbrush occasionally.)

It still leaves a problem -- there was no sign of human remains at the Pentagon or the supposed crash site of Flight 73, as 'everyone and everything was completely incinerated' according to official reports. In fact, just about everyone was horribly crushed to dust in the WTC towers also (and can we really believe the total numbers and the identities? how many identities have been faked?) -- except that bone fragments are still being turned up years later where they shouldn't due to callous disregard by the authorities for anyone's life or mortal remains. So how did they get immediate accident site samples of absolutely everyone when 1) there were no body parts anywhere according to official reports and indeed photographs, and 2) if they were, they would have all been horribly co-mingled and apparently in tiny little near-invisible fragments.

Despite the supposedly awful incineration at the Pentagon, there are pics of someone looking bemused standing at the edge of their now exposed office on the second floor surveying the wreckage inside the hole in the building, with pieces of paper still on their desks. (There was absolutely no physical evidence of the two multi-ton engines that supposedly hit the building, nor were there any holes in the building from the impact of those engines, but there was a single rotor from a much smaller engine such as a cruise missile or drone might have.

Speaking of callous disregard by authorities, one Barry Jennings, a supervisor in WTC7, said he stepped over bodies in the foyer of WTC7 on the way out. The building was later demolished. There was an actual countdown heard over radios. This implies it must have been prewired with explosives -- which takes months to organise in advance!!!!!! it is not possible to enter a damaged and burning building that has been evacuated and then go on to wire it up with explosives for perfect in-footprint demolition in one day. The OH&S considerations would rule it out immediately anyhow. The WTC7 demolition was a major miscalculation and bungle by the perpetrators of this chicanery -- it is posited that some other incident was supposed to occur, such as another jet striking WTC7, but it was stymied, and they could not chance the building being search and inspected in subsequent days and finding evidence of prewired explosives! Anyhow, Barry Jennings mysteriously died at age 53 just a couple of days before the revised NIST report was due to be released, which attempts to forestall the criticisms of investigators having had time to evaluate the weak points of their earlier arguments in the first NIST report. The bodies in the foyer would have been destroyed in the demolition also, with the official line being that 'there were no deaths in WTC7 (except for one mysterious Federal agent who should not have been in there at all), and the building was completely evacuated.
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby NinjaPuppy » 22 Sep 2012, 09:49

SydneyPSIder wrote:In fact, just about everyone was horribly crushed to dust in the WTC towers also (and can we really believe the total numbers and the identities? how many identities have been faked?)

OK, you lost me again. Are you claiming that the people on some official list at the WTC buildings has false identities? Well DUH! Anyone who went "missing" during that time may be part of that list. There was no security to get into those buildings. Security existed on some floors or areas but they were open to the public.

SydneyPSIder wrote: -- except that bone fragments are still being turned up years later where they shouldn't due to callous disregard by the authorities for anyone's life or mortal remains.

I hate to sound callous but finding "bone fragments" in NY & NJ is VERY common. You've got Native American burial grounds, early settlers who were buried (1600s) and even today, turning up a "fresh one" can happen Soprano's style.

SydneyPSIder wrote:So how did they get immediate accident site samples of absolutely everyone when 1) there were no body parts anywhere according to official reports and indeed photographs, and 2) if they were, they would have all been horribly co-mingled and apparently in tiny little near-invisible fragments.

They did what they could with what they had at the time. As for "accident site samples of absolutely everyone", that is probably "accident site samples of absolutely everyone (they could find a sample big enough to test)". If it ain't there, you can't find it.
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby really? » 22 Sep 2012, 10:09

NP you are wasting valuable breath. There's no talking reason with this person. He or she is a bad as Truthers, Climate Deniers etc. They should take that course offered on the history of pseudoscience.
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby SydneyPSIder » 22 Sep 2012, 10:14

NinjaPuppy wrote:
SydneyPSIder wrote:In fact, just about everyone was horribly crushed to dust in the WTC towers also (and can we really believe the total numbers and the identities? how many identities have been faked?)

OK, you lost me again. Are you claiming that the people on some official list at the WTC buildings has false identities? Well DUH! Anyone who went "missing" during that time may be part of that list. There was no security to get into those buildings. Security existed on some floors or areas but they were open to the public.

SydneyPSIder wrote: -- except that bone fragments are still being turned up years later where they shouldn't due to callous disregard by the authorities for anyone's life or mortal remains.

I hate to sound callous but finding "bone fragments" in NY & NJ is VERY common. You've got Native American burial grounds, early settlers who were buried (1600s) and even today, turning up a "fresh one" can happen Soprano's style.

SydneyPSIder wrote:So how did they get immediate accident site samples of absolutely everyone when 1) there were no body parts anywhere according to official reports and indeed photographs, and 2) if they were, they would have all been horribly co-mingled and apparently in tiny little near-invisible fragments.

They did what they could with what they had at the time. As for "accident site samples of absolutely everyone", that is probably "accident site samples of absolutely everyone (they could find a sample big enough to test)". If it ain't there, you can't find it.

In some of the wreckage around Deutsche Bank, which subsequently had to be raked out of respect for the remains.

Official reports passed on by the media claimed an almost 100% match on all passengers of the flights.

I personally believe or suspect a lot of identities and name lists have been faked as part of the operation, including numbers in the towers and flights, also based upon the FOI tenancy records of the towers showing many unoccupied floors for many many years until just 1 year prior to the collapse. A lot of the 'mobile calls' were most likely faked, as already discussed, suspicion due to clear technology limitations. There are two main benefits of faking many IDs: one is creating a bunch of profiles to publicise the fate of non-existent persons, including the 'phone calls' they allegedly made, to increase public outrage, and 2) the idea is to claim victims' compensation in the millions for the fake IDs from govt revenue and spend the money rewarding the actual agents involved in the scam. This is how you help pay for black ops like this. One CIA operative got a payout of $13M, on the public record.

Unfortunately, there were many legitimate deaths, and these people were viewed as expendable by the US govt and certain foreign govts involved in this operation in the interests of a greater cause of securing large-scale hydrocarbon resources for their own countries to remain Number 1 and profits for the elites in the longer term while neutralising some major enemies (and not direct enemies of the US or a threat to the US, by the way) in the process.
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby NinjaPuppy » 22 Sep 2012, 10:16

really? wrote:NP you are wasting valuable breath. There's no talking reason with this person. He or she is a bad as Truthers, Climate Deniers etc. They should take that course offered on the history of pseudoscience.

But I like Truthers, NoPlaners and the others. I don't like Climate Deniers however. I don't know why, I just don't.

I think that EVERYONE needs to take that course on the history of pseudoscience. I also think that if someone thinks that something is fishy, they should keep asking questions until they are satisfied with the answers.
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby really? » 22 Sep 2012, 10:16

SydneyPSIder wrote:You guys (pseudosceptics) increasingly just sound like suckers. It's obvious that you are not willing to examine the evidence in any detail, further failing the test of a legitimate scientist or enquirer. I'm struck most by the sheer laziness of posters here, to be honest, that's just how it seems.

I posted this but I doubt you have read or would read it or maybe you just didn't see it. So that you don't miss it I've posted a link in this reply. Enjoy the article.
Skeptics of the World, Unite!You see, it turns out that the U.S. military has been experimenting for years on this thing called HAARP, a mysterious installation in the wilds of Alaska. They say they're just conducting experiments on the ionosphere as a way of improving satellite communications. Sounds reasonable, right? But there's something they're not telling you. Luckily a few brave souls like U.S. talk radio guru Alex Jones and Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez are prepared to blow the lid off this thing. It turns out, they tell us, that HAARP is actually a "tectonic weapon" -- a system developed by Pentagon planners to cause earthquakes on cue. According to Chávez, the Haiti earthquake was just a "drill," a not-so-dry run for a planned geophysical attack on Iran. (Apparently, in a nice twist, even Sarah Palin's in on the whole thing. The original HAARP site is in Alaska, after all, and she used to be governor there.)
We're awash in conspiracy theories -- and that's not a good thing. A plea for a genuine culture of skepticism.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... orld_unite
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