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Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.

Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby SydneyPSIder » 30 Sep 2012, 12:40

How about:

Background and Motive

In the summer of 2000, the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), a neo-conservative think tank riddled with soon to be Bush administration officials and advisors, issued a document calling for the radical restructuring of U.S. government and military policies. It advocated the massive expansion of defense spending, the re-invasion of Iraq, the military and economic securing of Afghanistan and Central Asia, increased centralized power and funds for the CIA, FBI, and NSA, among a slew of other policies that would, in the near future, be enacted upon their ascension to power. In the same document, they cite a potential problem with their plan. Referring to the goals of transforming the U.S. and global power structure, the paper states that because of the American Public's slant toward ideas of democracy and freedom, "this process of transformation is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor." (ibid.)

PNAC members, and signees to its policy documents, include: Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wofowitz, Jeb Bush, Richard Perle, John Bolton, Scooter Libby, Elliot Abrams, Richard Armitage, William Bennet, William Kristol, and Zalmy Khalilzad - men with their hands deep in the private defense, oil, and multi-national corporate industries poised to make vast sums of money and secure huge tracts of power and influence if PNAC policy evolved into U.S. Government policy. Nine months after they rose to power, and assumed central positions of leadership up and down the spectrum of military, civilian, domestic, and international agencies, they got their 'New Pearl Harbor'. And PNAC policy essentially evolved into the Bush Administration's official agenda. While this alarmingly convenient coincidence does not prove anything in and of itself, it does establish motive. And it certainly would raise the eyebrows of concern from any serious investigator looking into the facts of September 11.

Another alarming coincidence surrounding PNAC and September 11 has been revealed by attorney Stanley Hilton. Hilton, a graduate of Harvard Law School and former senior advisor and lead counsel for Bob Dole, attended the University of Chicago as an undergraduate in the 1960s. He studied under the infamous Leo Strauss, considered by many the father of neo-conservatism. Fellow students and acquaintances of Hilton's at the time included Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle. In an interview with journalist Alex Jones, Hilton reports that, under the supervision of Strauss, his senior thesis detailed a plan to establish a Presidential Dictatorship using a fabricated 'Pearl Harbor-like incident' as justification. He further states that he, Perle, Wolfowitz, and other students of Strauss discussed an array of different plots and incidents 'like September 11th' and 'flying airplanes into buildings way back in the 60s'.

In light of these revelations, it is no surprise that Hilton has been trying to blow the whistle on government involvement in 9/11 for years. He has also filed a lawsuit against the government on behalf of a number of victims' families. As a result of his actions, Hilton has been harassed, threatened, burgled, and hounded repeatedly by the authorities.


A full 2 hour interview with Hilton can be downloaded here: http://rense.com/general57/aale.htm

http://www.911hardfacts.com/report_04.htm


wow, control of central Asia, deals have been done in Georgia and Uzbekistan in recent times, even under Obama, this isn't just about a few US-trained Taliban in Afghanistan who are supposedly a hotbed of terrorism then!
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby Misha » 30 Sep 2012, 17:26

SydneyPSIder wrote:

"wow, control of central Asia, deals have been done in Georgia and Uzbekistan in recent times, even under Obama, this isn't just about a few US-trained Taliban in Afghanistan who are supposedly a hotbed of terrorism then!"

An interesting book which I'm sure you folks on this forum are well aware of is "The Grand Chessboard" by Zbigniew Brzezinski. It is a excellent read in understanding American global hegemony in the Middle East and South Asia. This book was published in 1997 in preparation for what SydneyPSIder rightly points out in the PNAC thesis.


In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby SydneyPSIder » 30 Sep 2012, 18:11

14 US bases now surrounding Caspian Sea resources, this youtube just came to me via FB:



plus:

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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby ProfWag » 30 Sep 2012, 21:55

Misha wrote:
Now, fly over a sensitive military site within the continental United States at any time, especially before 9/11. Would you be intercepted? Do military planes scramble and intercept UFOs within the continental United States? Say a nuclear device is accidentally launched or a wayward rogue military jet is off track, would NORAD and interception happen?


Thanks for the post Misha. Interesting stuff you reference and I appreciate the reading, but not sure if you're asking me to answer or if you're stating the questions as factual comments. As previously stated, NORAD's primary responsibility prior to 9/11 was the air defense of the United States. Their AOR was the borders of the U.S. and off the coast (see black and white shaded regions here of their AOR: ( http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/calan8/6 ... iginal.gif ) . If a hijacked plane occured within the borders of the U.S., the FAA notified the FBI. NORAD would assist if requested.
From your link, there is this informaton which appears to show that they would not intercept over land pre-9/11: (bold is mine and this quote is from a couple paragraphs above your quote)
" This mission is supported by an extensive network of
ground-, air-, and space-based radars, sensors, and satellites, as
well as up-to-date threat intelligence. NORAD maintains a core force
of air defense fighter squadrons to provide protection in the event
of an attack. A number of these interceptors are on 24-hour alert at
locations along the U.S. border to identify and intercept unknown
aircraft or objects. In addition, two alert sites are located in
Alaska."

I have a very close uncle who was once the Deputy Director of NORAD (I'll send a pm with a link to his bio if necessary for proof) and we speak quite often on 9/11 and the U.S. air defense. Unfortunately he was retired and not in that positiion on 9/11 so I have no first hand information on the events of that day from leadership at NORAD other than what I have previously mentioned as being a member of Space Command at the time on a missile base. He has told me stories of him being scrambled off the coast of Alaska to track a UFO once in the 1970's which he thought was ridiculous so yes, they do scramble for UFO's, but it was not identified over land so don't know if that would have mattered. I shutter to think what would happen if a nuclear device was "accidently launched," but again, are we talking pre-or post cold war and or pre or post 9/11? But again, if you look at F-15 and F-16 bases in the U.S. in the '90's, you'll discover they are all along the coast of the U.S. which was our mindset at that time. We were concerned with preventing enemies from crossing into our borders and not concerned with enemies originiting from within.

My goal from my post was to show that Sydney was referencing someone who thought it should be common sense that NORAD would have intercepted hijacked planes that day and that someone else had lied when it was reported that Payne Stewart's Cessna was the only intercept during the 1990's. My comments were to show that yes, it was the only intercept over land during that timeframe, but did not include over water intercepts so I don't believe that Syd does his homework. If you or anyone else knows of a large number of intercepts of hijacked planes over land in the 1990's, I'll be happy to admit my error.
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby SydneyPSIder » 30 Sep 2012, 23:34

The comparative reference to 67 intercepts in the 9 months prior to 9/11 has been made -- are you saying all these intercepts were international flights straying off course coming into US airspace from the coast, and that none were domestic flights straying off course? The comparison is made to some 462 intercepts in the 9 months after 9/11, with no reference being made to a fact like 'of course, the previous intercepts were all over water, as that was all NORAD did' -- this would have come out in the testimonial and official report as a convenient excuse for no intercepts, of course -- that the US simply did not track or intercept off course planes on domestic flights. I find this hard to believe, as of course anyone imagining a hijacking for any purpose would include the possibility of a domestic hijacking over land when constructing a model for interception. It is just possible we are talking about coastal intercepts only, but it does not materially change the 9/11 story -- if so, it just provided the planners with a convenient source of confusion and advantage by exploiting a glaring gap in national security.

However, a debunkiing the debunkers argument goes like this:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/inde ... p=10782960
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby Misha » 01 Oct 2012, 01:59

ProfWag wrote:
Misha wrote:
Now, fly over a sensitive military site within the continental United States at any time, especially before 9/11. Would you be intercepted? Do military planes scramble and intercept UFOs within the continental United States? Say a nuclear device is accidentally launched or a wayward rogue military jet is off track, would NORAD and interception happen?


Thanks for the post Misha. Interesting stuff you reference and I appreciate the reading, but not sure if you're asking me to answer or if you're stating the questions as factual comments. As previously stated, NORAD's primary responsibility prior to 9/11 was the air defense of the United States. Their AOR was the borders of the U.S. and off the coast (see black and white shaded regions here of their AOR: ( http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/calan8/6 ... iginal.gif ) . If a hijacked plane occured within the borders of the U.S., the FAA notified the FBI. NORAD would assist if requested.
From your link, there is this informaton which appears to show that they would not intercept over land pre-9/11: (bold is mine and this quote is from a couple paragraphs above your quote)
" This mission is supported by an extensive network of
ground-, air-, and space-based radars, sensors, and satellites, as
well as up-to-date threat intelligence. NORAD maintains a core force
of air defense fighter squadrons to provide protection in the event
of an attack. A number of these interceptors are on 24-hour alert at
locations along the U.S. border to identify and intercept unknown
aircraft or objects. In addition, two alert sites are located in
Alaska."

I have a very close uncle who was once the Deputy Director of NORAD (I'll send a pm with a link to his bio if necessary for proof) and we speak quite often on 9/11 and the U.S. air defense. Unfortunately he was retired and not in that positiion on 9/11 so I have no first hand information on the events of that day from leadership at NORAD other than what I have previously mentioned as being a member of Space Command at the time on a missile base. He has told me stories of him being scrambled off the coast of Alaska to track a UFO once in the 1970's which he thought was ridiculous so yes, they do scramble for UFO's, but it was not identified over land so don't know if that would have mattered. I shutter to think what would happen if a nuclear device was "accidently launched," but again, are we talking pre-or post cold war and or pre or post 9/11? But again, if you look at F-15 and F-16 bases in the U.S. in the '90's, you'll discover they are all along the coast of the U.S. which was our mindset at that time. We were concerned with preventing enemies from crossing into our borders and not concerned with enemies originiting from within.

My goal from my post was to show that Sydney was referencing someone who thought it should be common sense that NORAD would have intercepted hijacked planes that day and that someone else had lied when it was reported that Payne Stewart's Cessna was the only intercept during the 1990's. My comments were to show that yes, it was the only intercept over land during that timeframe, but did not include over water intercepts so I don't believe that Syd does his homework. If you or anyone else knows of a large number of intercepts of hijacked planes over land in the 1990's, I'll be happy to admit my error.


Hi ProWag, I am asking anyone who might have some insight to interceptions in general. Please do ask your uncle if he has knowledge of any intercepts of any variety within the continental United States before 9/11. Thank you.
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby ProfWag » 01 Oct 2012, 06:30

Misha wrote:
ProfWag wrote:
Misha wrote:
Now, fly over a sensitive military site within the continental United States at any time, especially before 9/11. Would you be intercepted? Do military planes scramble and intercept UFOs within the continental United States? Say a nuclear device is accidentally launched or a wayward rogue military jet is off track, would NORAD and interception happen?


Thanks for the post Misha. Interesting stuff you reference and I appreciate the reading, but not sure if you're asking me to answer or if you're stating the questions as factual comments. As previously stated, NORAD's primary responsibility prior to 9/11 was the air defense of the United States. Their AOR was the borders of the U.S. and off the coast (see black and white shaded regions here of their AOR: ( http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/calan8/6 ... iginal.gif ) . If a hijacked plane occured within the borders of the U.S., the FAA notified the FBI. NORAD would assist if requested.
From your link, there is this informaton which appears to show that they would not intercept over land pre-9/11: (bold is mine and this quote is from a couple paragraphs above your quote)
" This mission is supported by an extensive network of
ground-, air-, and space-based radars, sensors, and satellites, as
well as up-to-date threat intelligence. NORAD maintains a core force
of air defense fighter squadrons to provide protection in the event
of an attack. A number of these interceptors are on 24-hour alert at
locations along the U.S. border to identify and intercept unknown
aircraft or objects. In addition, two alert sites are located in
Alaska."

I have a very close uncle who was once the Deputy Director of NORAD (I'll send a pm with a link to his bio if necessary for proof) and we speak quite often on 9/11 and the U.S. air defense. Unfortunately he was retired and not in that positiion on 9/11 so I have no first hand information on the events of that day from leadership at NORAD other than what I have previously mentioned as being a member of Space Command at the time on a missile base. He has told me stories of him being scrambled off the coast of Alaska to track a UFO once in the 1970's which he thought was ridiculous so yes, they do scramble for UFO's, but it was not identified over land so don't know if that would have mattered. I shutter to think what would happen if a nuclear device was "accidently launched," but again, are we talking pre-or post cold war and or pre or post 9/11? But again, if you look at F-15 and F-16 bases in the U.S. in the '90's, you'll discover they are all along the coast of the U.S. which was our mindset at that time. We were concerned with preventing enemies from crossing into our borders and not concerned with enemies originiting from within.

My goal from my post was to show that Sydney was referencing someone who thought it should be common sense that NORAD would have intercepted hijacked planes that day and that someone else had lied when it was reported that Payne Stewart's Cessna was the only intercept during the 1990's. My comments were to show that yes, it was the only intercept over land during that timeframe, but did not include over water intercepts so I don't believe that Syd does his homework. If you or anyone else knows of a large number of intercepts of hijacked planes over land in the 1990's, I'll be happy to admit my error.


Hi ProWag, I am asking anyone who might have some insight to interceptions in general. Please do ask your uncle if he has knowledge of any intercepts of any variety within the continental United States before 9/11. Thank you.

I will and will post his response.
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby ProfWag » 01 Oct 2012, 07:35

SydneyPSIder wrote:The comparative reference to 67 intercepts in the 9 months prior to 9/11 has been made -- are you saying all these intercepts were international flights straying off course coming into US airspace from the coast, and that none were domestic flights straying off course?

I'm saying the flights that were intercepted were done so over water and not over land. I'm not saying where the flight originated from. I'm doing some more homework, but at this time, I believe it to be true. Waiting on my Uncle's answer and trying to find more references. Having spent 24 years in the Air Force, this is one area I feel I can contribute with some sort of "expertise" in the 9/11 discussion.
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby SydneyPSIder » 01 Oct 2012, 07:48

ProfWag wrote:
SydneyPSIder wrote:The comparative reference to 67 intercepts in the 9 months prior to 9/11 has been made -- are you saying all these intercepts were international flights straying off course coming into US airspace from the coast, and that none were domestic flights straying off course?

I'm saying the flights that were intercepted were done so over water and not over land. I'm not saying where the flight originated from. I'm doing some more homework, but at this time, I believe it to be true. Waiting on my Uncle's answer and trying to find more references. Having spent 24 years in the Air Force, this is one area I feel I can contribute with some sort of "expertise" in the 9/11 discussion.

That's fine. It doesn't materially change the case in physics for the WTC buildings collapses or other suspicious activity around 9/11 -- it's possible that weak national security around flight interception was exploited by the internal govt organisers of the operation.
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby Misha » 03 Oct 2012, 05:22

Hi Guys,

Some of you may already be aware the Piers Morgan interview with Jesse Ventura. It well worth watching. Notice the poll when Ventura asks the audience if his points are sensible. Also, I saw this interesting article in the NY Times.

http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2012/09/21 ... -audience/

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/sunda ... h_20120930
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby Scepcop » 19 Nov 2012, 20:27

Wow check out this list of 250+ smoking guns of the 9/11 conspiracy. Each one of them is a clickable link to more info. With all this evidence, it'd be insane to deny an inside job conspiracy, which has been proven by all the rules and standards of logic.

http://killtown.911review.org/911smokingguns.html
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby Scepcop » 21 Nov 2012, 05:28

Check out my new report with 50+ logical conspiracy arguments. It covers 9/11, JFK and the Moon Landings.

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Conspiracies.htm
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Sign these petitions for a new REAL 9/11 investigation!

Postby SydneyPSIder » 24 Feb 2013, 15:32

Just rediscovered the claim that one of the plane's tailplanes was seen in service several years later, at 7:49 in the below video:



on Flight 1111, a United Airlines 757, at Chicago O'Hare Airport on 10 April 2003 by David Friedman, a UA employee who records all his flights.

This tends to back up the no planer or partial no planer thesis -- that either no, or possibly one, commercial airliners were destroyed at all. There is a chance the Shanksville PA flight was downed. It's possible around 200 innocent people were herded from several landed planes (mysteriously not even a quarter full each at peak commuter time) into a single plane at Cleveland believing they were being returned to their journey to LA, only to be diverted again back to PA and shot down by the USAF. Alternatively, something else happened. A claim has been made that the hole in the ground in Shanksville was staged (obviously) but that a plane was genuinely shot down and wreckage, bodies, luggage etc were strewn through the area close by. This way it would be possible to recover DNA matches and produced 'genuine fake' DNA match tests I suppose from body parts for all the claimed 9/11 plane victims, for what it's worth.

Note also the Cleveland airport was shut down at that time, with people forced to walk miles on the freeway to get away from the site, and bus drivers being told they would be shot if they departed from their route. Interesting society you've got there, seems it's easy to get away with anything as long as you have a uniform and a gun and invoke 'national security'. The passenger terminals at the supposed arriving point of LA were also shut down, but mysteriously there were no upset or grieving families recorded there at all waiting for their family members to arrive, and nothing seems to have appeared in the press about that since.

The entire youtube is worth watching, it's an excerpt from Loose Change.
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