Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.
I feel like I'm getting some negative vibes out there simply because I tend to believe what I've seen, read, heard, studied, and experienced, so please allow me a few lines to cut through some of the bullsh!t and express where I come from when I state that I can't believe in most of the theories that run rampant.
Immediately after 9/11, my wife was sent off to the Middle East for 15 months to fight a war for my country. 4 years later, I was sent off to the Middle East for 6 months to do the same thing. I have experienced first-hand the hatred that Al Qaeda has for Americans. Unless you've ever sat in an outhouse hoping to get 5 minutes of sanity, only to have an IED go off 100 yards away that makes you finish your job in a gas mask, you may not completely understand just how much American ideals are dispised. I have looked at the complete lack of terror that a 12 year old boy has in his eyes as he has been trained from day one to hate me because I am an American. So yea, when I am criticized for not believing that our government and/or our social leaders were behind those attacks, I take it very personally.
I held a high security clearance and I was priviledged to sit through some briefings that I won't be able to discuss publicly for years to come. What I can say is that I know, from extremely high levels, that most of the "theories" out there are pure imagination. A few years ago, I had dinner with my wife and her former boss who was a prosecuter at Gitmo and I can assure you that the prisoners there do NOT believe in anything other than their "successful mission" and they are quite proud of themselves.
For such an elaborate "hoax" to have been successful, there would have had to have been so many people involved that you would lose count after a couple thousand. And although I cannot speak for everyone, the men and women in my unit overseas would come to me if they saw a fellow airman pocket a package of yellow stickies. So to answer Syd's question from a few pasts back, yes, not only do I believe, but I know that people would speak out if there was talk of an "inside job," especially to the magnitude of 9/11.
Thanks for your time.
Hi ProWag. I found your post honest and forthright. Let me ponder and collect my thoughts on what you say. One thing I want to make clear to you and the people on this forum is that I support and stand with you guys and gals who are over there fighting. You folks who fight did not set policy and subvert the constitution. I may disagree with the war and its precedent. But, with all things being said you won't find me sitting on anti-aircraft gun or betraying prisoners of war. You guys have to fight to survive while over there. In essence, I am very much close to how Scott Ritter feels and his position.
While I may seem to be rather wishy washy on the whole 9/11 subject it's because I want to think that the official story is the truth because the thought of it being as others may suggest, would totally shatter my love and appreciation of this country. I'm a firm believer of "if your unhappy with something, then go and find something better". Simply put, "America, love it or leave it". I also realize that we are not the only country on the planet and not everyone here is from this country, so I believe it's important to listen to their views of our little piece of the world. I don't have to agree with them or approve, just listen.
Not to water down the importance of your (entire) statement here as it is a perfect example, but people are people. Hate, jealousy, a desire for power and control go back to the beginning of time. I don't think it will ever change. There will always be those human being who will do whatever it takes to get what they want for whatever their reason.
IMO, they have not experienced what you have. No one but you knows how or why you have the beliefs and convictions that you hold so dear. Not to mention that you probably understand things that we others will never be privy to. I know that the best way that I can try to express my theories here is by personal experience.
Pure imagination? Sh!t, some of the theories out there are pure CRAP presented in an excellent manner to do nothing more than confuse the hell out of us all. However, you have to read that crap along with everything else if you want to be able to recognize the crap from the real questions that might actually exist and not just in heads of people once again are in it for power and control.
Here's a great quote:
Can we wind history back a bit and ask why Americans in particular are despised so much in that part of the world? vs, say, Swedes or Australians?
(Australians might come in a close second now because the govt is a govt of Anglosphere lapdogs and poodles and colonial mercenaries that does as it is told for fear of losing an 'alliance'.)
I think I asked a long way back why, if 15 Saudi + citizens perpetrated the act, where Saudi Arabia is an oil ally of the US with bases, etc, then why wold you attack Iraq and Afghanistan? Iraq was furnished with WMD sold exclusively by the UK and US hopefully in order to use them against Iran, which were known to have been subsequently destroyed, and Afghanis were trained and armed by the US solely to fight Russians.
Dose anyone really believe they 'hate our freedoms'? Suggestion: look at the affair with Mohammad Mosaddegh in 1952, where Britain was miffed that the discount oil it had been getting from Iran might go up to the price the Saudis were getting -- this was the Anglo-Iranian oil company that became BP, and Winston Churchill himself had a lot of shares and thereby a conflict of interest. He was a racist and viewed middle eastern oil as peculiarly belonging to Britain, after the convenient carve-up of those territories at the end of WWI into 'spheres of influence', breaking their promises of recognising arab nationalism which helped to win the war. MI6 and the CIA deposed the democratically elected leader of Iran and instated the Shah as a western-friendly puppet, which only paved the way for the ayatollahs in a popular backlash.
The US could not get a resolution from the UN Security Council to go into a country or two on a pretext, but they went in anyway, and lo! there were no WMD. Interesting times. While I agree it's not much fun for the virtual conscript US army (a rare 1st world country with time-limited unemployment benefits), that is the militarised country you've created. Annual US expenditure on the military is greater than the next 10 countries combined and comprises nearly 50% of the world spend on arms. It's not just about the Pax Americana, either.
The case characters like Colin Powell made for war, knowing full well there were no WMD there, was just a miserable beat-up to go get access to oil. it was just obvious to the rest of the world, it was a war of empty words, a war of propaganda. The rest of the world doesn't get a bizarre Republican right-wing blizzard of misinformation thrown at them, and simply judges what they see. No other country in the world appears as right-wing and self-interested with a mostly desluisional population who are so brainwashed by the rhetoric they vote against their own interests. You think people in the rest of world can't see the pretexts?
Last edited by SydneyPSIder on 26 Sep 2012, 23:29, edited 3 times in total.
Between you, I, and the couple dozen or so other people who will read this, most of us there didn't agree with the whole Iraq thing, but Kabul was a different story and more personal to folks. I'm also not suggesting that our government didn't know more than they let on for years (as has recently come out and which more is yet to come). I'm only suggesting that to conclude in an investigation that it had to have been more than Al Qaeda shouldn't be complete without considering the motive of those that have been charged with the attack.
Also, to be honest, I was in the Air Force and not one of the guys and gals who were on the front line for months at a time. I was an in and out in 24 hours type of guy. My primary job was at a classified location and I held overall responsibility of reporting troop levels and requirements to the Secretary of Defense and for providing casualty assistance/body transport planning for the dead/wounded. I had to go into the Iraq and Afghanistan war zones periodically on escort missions which, hopefully sooner or later, I can share with you who or what I was escorting 'cause it was a hoot and might come as a big surprise to people. I'll check and see if it's been declassified yet, but I don't think so.
I remember sitting in the smoke shack with a bunch of Australians one night and I asked them if Foster's Lager was really "Australian for beer." I'll never forget him saying in his wonderful accent, "no one in Australia drinks that sh!t!" (Sorry to be off topic, it just cracked me up at the time.)
I can't speak for the Australians, British, or anyone else for that matter. I'm only giving my personal story. Take it for what it's worth.
Also, let me clarify that not everyone in that part of the world are against us (though we are the most hated country in the world). I'm sure most of you already know why Al Qaeda doesn't like us though as it stems back to our support of Israel. I won't say whether or not the feelings are not warranted though...
Afghanistan isn't even really a country, just a loose collection of tribes forced into national borders by European colonial powers in a post-colonial carve-up of installing puppet leaders over regions.
Look back at Britain's worst ever military defeat to gain an impression of the hill tribes over the last couple of hundred years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_o ... e%27s_army
And the Russian experience in the 1980s. Afghanistan has been in the middle of The Great Game between European superpowers for over 200 years.
Israel is your problem, and probably the people really behind 9/11. It was a false flag to create a casus belli for invading Israel's enemies and destabilising the region.
Yes, Fosters isn't even available for sale in Australia, it's an export brand only, but it tastes like Victoria Bitter, or VB, a basic and ubiquitous draught bitter from the same large brewing company. I'm more into boutique ales myself to be honest! For another 50c a glass you can get an amazingly rich and complex ale, nothing like the flat Fosters and VBs, etc.
Ironically, your comment sounds almost exactly like the U.S. Congress' Indian Appropriations Act from the middle/late 1800's.
yeah, 'manifest destiny' -- appropriate land from the indigenous title holders at the point of a gun, threaten France to hand over its possessions in the Louisiana Purchase, then take the western third from the Spanish or newly independent Mexicans and English, and go down as far as California, Texas and New Mexico in the disputed territories with Mexico. Not a bad haul...
U.S. history is actually kinda sad, yet movies and history books almost glorify how taking land from the Indians and then forcing them to reside on reservations and hide them from the rest of society. I realize that I had nothing to do with it personally, but it's kind of an embarrasment.
Oh well, beer talk killed that topic...
I think some sort of bunker buster missile hit the Pentagon, explaining the cordite smell reported by many experienced servicemen in the building, the whoosh etc by witnesses, the shockwave of an explosion that was felt. I'm curious to know exactly which bunker buster type it was. There may also have been planted explosives beforehand in the walls etc.
That tends to throw the whole Barbara/Ted Olson thing out the window, as raised above -- he either arranged to have her killed, or she just left the country and is living as an expat in Sweden or somewhere under a new name because she wanted to -- paid off by the 'victim's compensation' money claimed from a lot of non-existent victims. Further, if there was any doubt about it, we know mobile phone calls are impossible from planes travelling at any height and speed.
Then there was the Cheney stand down order as the plane came in closer to the Pentagon, as openly testified by Norman Maneta. The understanding is that it passed overhead and landed elsewhere.
The area of the Pentagon that was hit was occupied by auditors looking for a hidden $1 trillion Pentagon overhead, with the only paper records with them, now no longer.
http://www.911review.org/Wiki/PentagonA ... last.shtml
Feel free to think anything you want. That's the issue, actually. People have to "think" it was something different when the evidence clearly points to your "bunker buster" being a Boeing 757.
Sorry, as I've clearly shown in many other posts, mobile phones are possible on planes and were in 2001.
Once again, I have clearly shown your statement to be incorrect and irresponsible to forget about the lives of 50 military and 75 army civilian personnel.
It is quite clear to me that the only way an "inside job" conspiracy theory can work and spread propoganda is to be deceitful to the readers. Really not the right thing to do. I am more interested in facts and I haven't seen a single fact posted by a CTer in quite some time that hasn't been at least somewhat deceitful or that didn't cover the whole story.
There is very very little evidence whatsoever that it was a Boeing 757 -- what physical evidence was there? Where is the footage that was confiscated? Why did witnesses report a low-flying commercial jet that went on its way, and in a different direction?
It's been demonstrated mobile phone calls weren't possible back then, are only possible now with special technology, and in-plane phone calls weren't available on that airline. A plane travelling at speed does not allow sufficient time travelling over a cell tower to handshake or negotiate a connection. Further, the antennae are directionally designed to transmit maximum signal over the ground, not straight up. The only place you can hope to make a call successfully is at low speed taking off and landing at an airport. That was not this situation.
Where did you show the statement about the auditors to be incorrect?
In denial or misinformation section of the CIA?
Numerous eye witness testimony, engine and wheel wrechage, one quick photograph just before impact, among other things. You have even said yourself that the nose of planes would disintegrate on impact and guess what much of the rest of the plane is made of? It is of no surprise, and it would be quite likely, that there would be little left of an airplane traveling at 400 miles an hour making a direct hit. Just what do you think SHOULD have been left of the plane?
May I direct you to an unbiased article from November 2001 concerning cell phones on planes:
http://connectedplanetonline.com/wirele ... l_contact/
I don't know what demonstration you are referring to that cell phones weren't possible.
There may have been auditors killed, but they certainly weren't the only ones who were and they were not even in the majority--as I mentioned earlier in response to your post when I showed that there were 125 people killed including 50 military and 75 civilians. A Lieutenant General was killed for christsake. He is not an "auditor" looking for a trillion dollars...
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