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Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.

Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby SydneyPSIder » 09 Mar 2014, 17:53

This is a rebuttal of the revisionists and much of the material of the videos FF has posted, suggesting there was more going on as the war progressed:

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... -disposal/

I'm not saying that is definitive either, it is still a battle of the texts.

In all fairness, some of the treatments in the movies do provide convincing evidence it's implausible for open air pyres to work, etc. That some of the stories have been mythologised and they are being repeated with variations. There is a suggestion that some of the testimonies are in fact quite false. However it is possible the Germans started on a campaign not of deportation but annihilation at some stage, and were building up to larger and larger scale efforts. It's just not clear on an analysis of the various conflicting documents and accounts, and of course it is conveniently murky after several decades have passed to say anything on either side without good corroboration. I think it is unfortunate if survivors are fabricating stories of their experiences.

Certainly I think many of FF's initial premises were quite wrong - hitler is painted as some sort of patriot with limited ambitions for Germany and so on, as Irving portrays. the broader socio-historical context of Prussian militarism and the ambitions of the germans seems to suggest otherwise. so we move on from that to suggest that the Nazis could not have been that inhuman, it's unthinkable -- and yet so was the extent of their professed anti-Semitism and racism by today's standards in their many published remarks. and it appears that they were very happy to dispose of the infirm, the disabled etc to make way for wounded soldiers and to reduce the economic burden on everyone -- even according to posters publicly displayed by the Nazis several years before war had broken out. it was for these disturbing reasons together with rearmament and the invasion of several countries that made other countries in Europe nervous about their goals. so it doesn't seem to be just victor's justice and the victor's version of events here, no smoke without fire.

I reiterate it's probably not a suitable topic for attempted in-depth analysis on this site.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby FatFreddy » 10 Mar 2014, 18:47

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... -disposal/
(excerpt)
However, in 1994 the Institute for Forensic Research in Cracow, Poland undertook a comprehensive examination of the structures identified by numerous eye witnesses as homicidal gas chambers. The Institute found traces of hydrocyanic acid in the six structures it tested

This may, or may not have been a bogus test.

I've been busy for the last few days and I haven't had time to read the whole article but it looks like typical damage-control by a public relations firm to me.

For now, I'll just post this info for the viewers to check out.
http://waronyou.com/forums/index.php?PH ... board=65.0
http://waronyou.com/forums/index.php?PH ... board=28.0

There's probably stuff that addresses all the issues raised in the article there.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby SydneyPSIder » 10 Mar 2014, 19:18

is it possible to address every single part of the alleged hoax with proof of the opposite, then ditto for all the objections, in tabular format?
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby FatFreddy » 11 Mar 2014, 04:58

is it possible to address every single part of the alleged hoax with proof of the opposite, then ditto for all the objections, in tabular format?

That's a pretty good idea. I suppose we could do it. I'm a bit busy with work right now so I'll be slow to respond.

We can start with the gas chamber issue. Here are some arguments against the gas chambers.
http://waronyou.com/forums/index.php?PH ... pic=2276.0
http://waronyou.com/forums/index.php?PH ... ic=10295.0
http://waronyou.com/forums/index.php?topic=20413.0
http://waronyou.com/forums/index.php?topic=12256.0
http://waronyou.com/forums/index.php?topic=10239.0

We could find some arguments for the gas chambers in these threads.
http://www.volconvo.com/forums/history- ... world.html
http://www.debatepolitics.com/conspirac ... 471-a.html

You probably know were most of the pro-Holocaust stuff is. Let's concentrate on the gas chambers until the issue is settled before we move on to another issue.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby ProfWag » 11 Mar 2014, 19:04

FatFreddy wrote:
is it possible to address every single part of the alleged hoax with proof of the opposite, then ditto for all the objections, in tabular format?

That's a pretty good idea. I suppose we could do it. I'm a bit busy with work right now so I'll be slow to respond.

We can start with the gas chamber issue. Here are some arguments against the gas chambers.
http://waronyou.com/forums/index.php?PH ... pic=2276.0
http://waronyou.com/forums/index.php?PH ... ic=10295.0
http://waronyou.com/forums/index.php?topic=20413.0
http://waronyou.com/forums/index.php?topic=12256.0
http://waronyou.com/forums/index.php?topic=10239.0

We could find some arguments for the gas chambers in these threads.
http://www.volconvo.com/forums/history- ... world.html
http://www.debatepolitics.com/conspirac ... 471-a.html

You probably know were most of the pro-Holocaust stuff is. Let's concentrate on the gas chambers until the issue is settled before we move on to another issue.

Or we could just shut down this website and only post recommendations to other websites.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby Misha » 11 Mar 2014, 20:08

ProfWag, why shut down or control ANY debate on the issue whether pro or con? I think you, Syd and Freddy bring much to the table. I would like to follow any and all discourse regarding whatever issue you folks decide on.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby SydneyPSIder » 12 Mar 2014, 03:26

I think he's joking. FF doesn't do his argument any favours by posting click through links with no preface at all, but some of the arguments do seem to hold water, I have to admit. Interesting that this stuff was done to death in the 70s and 80s, and yet there is little said about it now, and it's still an offence to deny 'the holocaust' in a dozen countries despite evidence tendered in courts of law by chemical experts in the specific area under question that events as described could not have happened.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby FatFreddy » 12 Mar 2014, 05:21

I just found this but I haven't had time to watch it yet.

"Diesels, Gaswagons & Zyklon-B Part 1 of 6"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pACALht ... _BgDDWQzBz

It looks promising.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby SydneyPSIder » 12 Mar 2014, 08:35

Very promising. The point was made in other videos that diesel engines produce very little CO, that wood stoves were in use on cars back then due to petrol shortages in the war that produce 'wood gas' or CO much more efficiently and in large quantities and is also a much simpler mechanism than a full engine, that this would have been known to the Germans of course, that they claimed they dragged a 'captured Soviet sub's diesel engine' 250 km inland (Germany never captured a single Soviet sub, they managed to capture a British one once) just for this purpose -- although of course the CO output would be minimal even if this were true, etc etc. 'Witnesses' claimed they used gas in one place, diesel CO in another, poisoning in another, etc etc.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby FatFreddy » 12 Mar 2014, 21:26

Here's another one that looks promising.

"Holocaust Revisionism for Beginners by David McCalden"
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... n%20&sm=12

I probably won't have time to watch it till the weekend but I'm posting it anyway so the viewers can see it.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby FatFreddy » 14 Mar 2014, 05:21

Here's some more evidence that the allies lied about the gas chambers.

"Black Holocaust Lies"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bTzvOm ... 9AA67405E6
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby Scepcop » 23 Mar 2014, 21:51

justintime wrote:I am not a Nazi sympathizer. But if you look at the atrocities committed by Israel on the Palestinians, it would be hard to believe the world once defended the Jews. Or look at the role Germany is playing today, bailing out countries in Europe from economic disaster. It is inconceivable Germany was once at war with Europe. There is little to dispute about the two wars. It is the reason and causes offered by historians that should be questioned.
Eyes should then be turned to America. How out of the wars in Europe America emerged as the only super power and beginning with the bombing of Japan set out on a course to attack any country it disagreed with mainly impoverished countries such as Vietnam, Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan.


Good point. You will like this excellent video by Stefan Molyneux where he debunks Western myths about WWI and WWII. He explains why we had a lot LESS freedom after World War I and II then before them. He makes a lot of sense and gives excellent supporting arguments, points and facts that can't be disputed. And his reasoning is impeccable. This is a must see and should be seen by all who want to know the truth about what happened during the 20th Century.

Wow I didn't know that before WWI, people didn't have passports and could travel without them. That's interesting. I wonder how that worked.

Myths of World Wars

Part 1:



Part 2:

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby Scepcop » 24 Mar 2014, 13:14

Question: Why is Hitler portrayed as the most evil by America, but not other conquerors who did similar things? For example, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, and Napoleon also killed millions of people during their campaigns. They had prisoners executed too. Yet those three are romanticized as great conquerors whereas Hitler is greatly demonized. Why?

Will Hitler someday be called "Hitler the Great" just as the other three are now called?

Is it because those three are from ancient history and so are more romanticized than villainized?
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby Scepcop » 24 Mar 2014, 13:39

You won't believe these quotes I found by American historians that say that Britain and the Allies caused and started WWII with Germany! WTF?! Are they real? If so, how can this be? They go against the dogma that we've been taught about the Nazis starting WWII for world domination.

Quotes by Winston Churchill floating around also incriminate Britain, saying that it wanted a war with Germany for economic reasons. I've pasted them below as well. Are they legit? Why would Churchill say these things if he had portrayed Britain as a victim of WWII all along? Also below are quotes by diplomats and generals that incriminate the Allies for causing WWII as well.

Quotes by American Historians that incriminate the Allies

"Britain was taking advantage of the situation to go to war against Germany because the Reich had become too strong and had upset the European balance."
- Ralph F. Keeling, Institute of American Economics

"In no country has the historical blackout been more intense and effective than in Great Britain. Here it has been ingeniously christened The Iron Curtain of Discreet Silence. Virtually nothing has been written to reveal the truth about British responsibility for the Second World War and its disastrous results."
- Harry Elmer Barnes. American Historian

"The fact is that the only real offer of security which Poland received in 1938 and 1939 emanated from Hitler. He offered to guarantee the boundaries laid down in the Versailles Treaty against every other country. Even the Weimar Republic had not for a moment taken this into consideration. Whatever one may think of Hitler's government or foreign policy, no doubt exists on this point; his proposals to Poland in 1938/39 were reasonable and just and the most moderate of all which he made during the six years of his efforts to revise the Versailles Treaty by peaceful means."
- Professor Harry Elmer Barnes, American Historian

"The precise effect of the Mutual Assistance Pact was to give Poland a clear signal that aggression and belligerency was tolerable and a warning to Germany that any retaliation would be met by force."
- Sir. Basil Liddell Hart, The History of the Second World War

"The last thing Hitler wanted was to produce another great war. His people, and particularly his generals, were profoundly fearful of any such risk - the experiences of World War One had scarred their minds."
- Sir. Basil Liddell Hart, The History of the Second World War

Quotes by Winston Churchill that incriminate Britain

World War 1

"Should Germany merchandise (do business) again in the next 50 years we have led this war (WW1) in vain."
- Winston Churchill in The Times (1919)

World War 2

"We will force this war upon Hitler, if he wants it or not."
- Winston Churchill (1936 broadcast)

"Germany becomes too powerful. We have to crush it."
- Winston Churchill (November 1936 speaking to US General Robert E. Wood)

"This war is an English war and its goal is the destruction of Germany."
- Winston Churchill (Autumn 1939 broadcast)

"The war wasn’t only about abolishing fascism, but to conquer sales markets. We could have, if we had intended so, prevented this war from breaking out without doing one shot, but we didn’t want to."
- Winston Churchill to Truman (Fultun, USA March 1946)

"Germany’s unforgivable crime before WW2 was its attempt to loosen its economy out of the world trade system and to build up an independent exchange system from which the world-finance couldn’t profit anymore. ...We butchered the wrong pig."
- Winston Churchill (The Second World War - Bern, 1960)

Quotes by others about WWII that incriminate the Allies

"I believe strongly in the honourable intentions of your Fuhrer, however, tell him he should not overlook the fact that the ancient hatred of my people against everything German is abysmal."
- Marshall Pilsudski (1867-1935)

"Of all the Germans, Believe it or not, Hitler is the most moderate as far as Danzig and the Corridor are concerned."
- Sir, Neville Henderson, British Ambassador to Berlin, 16th August, 1939

"Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it, even if it wants to."
- Rydz-Smigly, Chief inspector of the Polish army in a public speech in front of Polish officiers (Summer 1939)

"Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other."
- Lord Halifax, English embassador in Washington (1939)

"There will be no peace in Europe until all Polish lands shall have been restored completely to Poland, until the name Prussia, being that of a people long since gone, shall have been wiped from the map of Europe, and until the Germans have moved their capital Berlin farther westwards."
- Henryk Baginski, Poland and the Baltic, Edinburgh 1942.

"Poland's decision of August 30, 1939 that was the basis for general mobilization marked a turning point in the history of Europe. It forced Hitler to wage war at a time when he hoped to gain further unbloody victories. "
- Kazimierz Sosnkowski, Polish General and Government-in-Exile's commander-in-chief, August 31, 1943

"We made a monster, a devil out of Hitler. Therefore we couldn’t disavow it after the war. After all, we mobilized the masses against the devil himself. So we were forced to play our part in this diabolic scenario after the war. In no way we could have pointed out to our people that the war only was an economic preventive measure."
- US foreign minister James Baker (1992)

"Not the political doctrine of Hitler has hurled us into this war. The reason was the success of his increase in building a new economy. The roots of war were envy, greed and fear."
- Major General J.F.C. Fuller, historian, England

"We didn’t go to war in 1939 to save Germany from Hitler...or the continent from fascism. Like in 1914, we went to war for the not lesser noble cause that we couldn’t accept a German hegemony over Europe."
- Sunday Correspondent, London (17.9.1989)

"The enemy is the German Reich and not Nazism, and those who still haven’t understood this, haven’t understood anything."
– Churchill’s chief counselor Robert Lord Vansittart (as said to foreign minister Lord Halifax, September 1940)

End of quotes

Here is a Nazi newsletter by Joseph Goebbels explaining why Britain and Churchill are responsible for WWII. Interesting to hear their side of it.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb47.htm

It is a major error to assume that England’s plutocrats slipped into the war against their will or even against their intentions. The opposite is true. The English warmongers wanted the war and used all the resources at their disposal over the years to bring it about. They surely were not surprised by the war. English plutocracy had no goal other than to unleash war against Germany at the right moment, and this since Germany first began to seek once again to be a world power.

Poland really had little to do with the outbreak of war between the Reich and England. It was only a means to an end. England did not support the Polish government out of principle or for humanitarian reasons. That is clear from the fact that England gave Poland no help of any kind whatsoever when the war began. Nor did England take any measures against Russia. The opposite, in fact. The London warring clique to this day has tried to bring Russia into the campaign of aggression against Germany.

The encirclement of Germany long before the outbreak of the war was traditional English policy. From the beginning, England has always directed its main military might against Germany. It never could tolerate a strong Reich on the Continent. It justified its policy by claiming that it wanted to maintain a balance of forces in Europe.


In the same newsletter, Goebbels commented on how Britain was spreading the false propaganda that Germany wanted to take over the world, when nothing could be further from the truth:

The English warmongers claim that National Socialism wants to conquer the world. No nation is secure against German aggression. An end must be made of the German hunger for power. The limit came in the conflict with Poland. In reality, however, there is another reason for England’s war with Germany. The English warmongers cannot seriously claim that Germany wants to conquer the world, particularly in view of the fact that England controls nearly two thirds of the world. And Germany since 1933 has never threatened English interests.


In conclusion, Goebbels emphasized that:

We did not want war. England inflicted it on us. English plutocracy forced it on us. England is responsible for the war, and it will have to pay for it.


As you can see, what Goebbels wrote paints a very different picture of what the Nazis wanted - peace and the avoidance of war - than what is presented to you by Western history, which claims that Hitler wanted to take over the world.

In another newsletter "What Does America Really Want?" Goebbels stated that Germany just wanted to be left alone, yet America kept trying to support a worldwide campaign against them and would not mind their own business. He wrote:

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb28.htm

Was the American president ever personally attacked in the German press, or America’s leading men slandered? We have been very restrained, even though we certainly had every reason to discuss this or that matter of American domestic policy.

Such things are not our concern. American statesmen, not us, determine American domestic policy. We are concerned only with Germany’s affairs. We also have no reason or intention of smuggling German political ideas into America. The very opposite, since the methods that we use are purely German. They are only valid in Germany. But we do believe that just as we respect the internal affairs of other countries and avoid polemics against them, they should treat us in the same way.

One cannot say that that is true of the United States of North America at present. Nearly the whole press, radio, and film industry support the worldwide campaign against Germany.

Senator Pitman put the matter bluntly on 22 December 1938: “The American people do not like Germany’s government.”

...We have nothing against the American people. We know and respect their political views and internal affairs, even if we might do things differently. We believe we have the right to expect the same of American public opinion about Germany. We also fail to see the benefits of such controversy. What good will it do America? Does it think it can starve Germany using the same methods as those of the World War?

...It is time to recommend peace and good sense. American public opinion is going the wrong way. It would benefit by returning to the old, tested practices of international courtesy and good manners, and by treating Germany in the way normal among civilized nations.


As you can see, his noble words call for peace, and for Germany to be treated with courtesy and respect, like civilized nations ought to be treated. These are hardly the words of warmongers who want to take over the world.

Here is a clip from the Nazi film "Triumph of the Will (1935)" where Hitler addresses the Hitler Youth and says "The German people must be peace-loving. They must love peace, yet be brave."



How come the Western media never tells you that Hitler said that? He never said in his speeches that he wanted to take over the world. But I guess actions speak louder than words.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby FatFreddy » 26 Mar 2014, 05:20

Thanks for the input Scepcop.


Here's some stuff I found on another forum. The jews seem to have "Drawn first blood" in WW2.
http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/script ... ecwar.html
http://northerntruthseeker.blogspot.se/ ... d-how.html

"Hitler will have no war (does not want war), but we will force it on him, not this year, but soon." - Emil Ludwig Cohn in Les Annales, June, 1934 (also quoted in his book "The New Holy Alliance").

"We Jews are going to bring a war on Germany." - David A. Brown, National Chairman, United Jewish Campaign, 1934 (quoted in "I Testify Against The Jews" by Robert Edward Edmondson, page 188 and "The Jewish War of Survival" by Arnold Leese, page 52).

"We want to bring about a deep hatred for the Germans, for German soldiers, sailors, and airmen. We must hate until we win." - Lord Beaverbrook, quoted in Niemals! by Heinrich Goitsch.

"There is only one power which really counts. The power of political pressure. We Jews are the most powerful people on earth, because we have this power, and we know how to apply it." - Vladimir Jabotinsky, Jewish Daily Bulletin, July 27, 1935.

On the 3rd of June, 1938, the American Hebrew boasted that they had Jews in the foremost positions of influence in Britain, Russia and France, and that these "three sons of Israel will be sending the Nazi dictator to hell." - Joseph Trimble, the American Hebrew.

"Germany is our public enemy number one. It is our object to declare war without mercy against her. One may be sure of this: We will lead that war!" - Bernard Lecache, the president of the "International League Against Racism and Anti-Semitism," in its newspaper "Droit de Vivre" (Right to Life), 9 November, 1938.

"The war now proposed is for the purpose of establishing Jewish hegemony throughout the world." - Brigadier General George Van Horn Mosely, The New York Tribune, March 29, 1939.

"The millions of Jews who live in America, England and France, North and South Africa, and, not to forget those in Palestine, are determined to bring the war of annihilation against Germany to its final end." - Central Blad Voor Israeliten in Nederland, September 13, 1939.

"Stop talking about peace conditions! Break Germany in pieces!" - The Daily Herald, No.7426, 9 December, 1939.

"The Jews, taken collectively, view this war as a holy war." - The Daily Herald, No.7450, 1939, quoted in "Reichstagsbrand, Aufklärung einer historischen Legende," by U. Backes, K.H. Janßen, E. Jesse, H. Köhler, H. Mommsen, E Tobias.

"In losing Germany, Jewry lost a territory from which it exerted power. Therefore it was determined to re-conquer it." - Louis Marschalko, "The World Conquerors : The Real War Criminals."

"The World Jewish Congress has been at war with Germany for seven years." - Rabbi M. Perlzweig (head of the British Section of the World Jewish Congress), Toronto Evening Telegram, February 26, 194

"The Second World War is being fought for the defense of the fundamentals of Judaism." - Rabbi Felix Mendlesohn, Chicago Sentinel, October 8, 1942.

"It is untrue that I or anyone else in Germany wanted war in 1939. It was wanted and provoked solely by international statesmen either of Jewish origin or working for Jewish interests. Nor had I ever wished that after the appalling first World War, there would ever be a second against either England or America." - Adolf Hitler, April, 1945.

"For months now the struggle against Germany is waged by each Jewish community, at each conference, in all our syndicates, and by each Jew all over the world. There is reason to believe that our part in this struggle has general value. We will trigger a spiritual and material war of all the world against Germany's ambitions to become once again a great nation, to recover lost territories and colonies. But our Jewish interests demand the complete destruction of Germany. Collectively and individually, the German nation is a threat to us Jews." - Vladimir Jabotinsky (founder of the Jewish terrorist group, Irgun Zvai Leumi) in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934 (also quoted in "Histoire de l'Armée Allemande" by Jacques Benoist-Mechin, Vol. IV, p. 303). http://guardian.150m.com/jews/jews-declare-war.htm
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