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Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.

Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby pwil » 05 Mar 2014, 23:11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SoTJ9cv028

This testimonial clip of a sonderkommando details a more graphic view of the gassing and burning process than I had imagined.


I have also tried to find testimonials of holocaust survivors who deny the gassings but haven't found any. If someone comes across one can you please post it.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby ProfWag » 06 Mar 2014, 10:23

Misha wrote:FatFreddy wrote: "
The revisionists don't dispute this. They're merely trying to separate what the Germans really did do from the lies and exaggerations and distortions.

Taking people prisoner and carting them away to work as slaves is reprehensible."

Agreed. Now let's look at the details in which FatFreddy has put forth. Let us be open-minded and evaluate both sides of the argument. Let's not fine or throw in jail those researchers who challenge the record. We should embrace all viewpoints and come to a complete understanding of what happened.

And I agree with you Misha. Which detail has Freddy put forth that you'd like to discuss? His first video from his post a couple back is 47 minutes long. You first.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby ProfWag » 06 Mar 2014, 10:52

Misha wrote: To throw people (Irving) in jail because we might disagree with their research only invites repression as I have said before. Christ, even the late Christopher Hitchens came out to defend Irving's right to be heard and not be censored.

Being that I am trying to see the light, I'll admit that my thoughts are changing a bit. Free speech is one of those things that should not be taken away. Everyone should be able to speak their opinions. I don't have to listen or Joe Smith doesn't have to publish it, but we should all be able to speak.
In America, free speech is one of our constitutional rights and, unlike Austria and Canada, would probably not have put him in jail for saying what he said, which is a good thing. Unless, of course, he incited a riot.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby FatFreddy » 06 Mar 2014, 19:47

I have also tried to find testimonials of holocaust survivors who deny the gassings but haven't found any. If someone comes across one can you please post it.

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Paul_Rassinier
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby ProfWag » 06 Mar 2014, 20:40

FatFreddy wrote:
I have also tried to find testimonials of holocaust survivors who deny the gassings but haven't found any. If someone comes across one can you please post it.

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Paul_Rassinier

On the surface, this looks like a valid testimonial, however, Rassinier was incarcerated in Buchenwald and no, there were no gas chambers there. His experience may have been truthful that there were no gassings in HIS camp, but he was most certainly not aware of Auschwitz and others.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby Scepcop » 06 Mar 2014, 22:19

ProfWag wrote:The preponderance of evidence of the Holocaust is so overwhelming that to deny it existed is nothing less than gross racism and anti-semitism. I won't get involved.


That's a strawman. The Holocaust revisionists do not claim that the Holocaust never happened. They argue that there was no Nazi plan or policy to exterminate the Jewish race. They say that large numbers of Jews died in concentration camps from Typhus and starvation. They argue that no Nazi document has been found that says that there was a Nazi plan to wipe out all Jews in these camps. They also argue that no evidence of gas chambers was found by any scientists or investigators. And they argue that six million Jews could not have possibly died, for many reasons, so the number had to be far less.

So please get their position straight. If you visit their websites, their position is explained fully. They do not deny the Holocaust. They claim that it is grossly exaggerated. And their motto is "Truth does not fear investigation" which means that if something is true, it does not need a law to bar people from investigating it.

What I've never understood is this: If these are extermination camps, then why are they used for labor as well? You can't starve your workers and expect them to be productive. Or gas them and make them work at the same time. So I'm a little confused about it. Perhaps someone can explain.

I also don't get that b/w video footage of mass bodies at concentration camps that they showed us in school. Those bodies were all bones. They looked like they were starved, not shot or gassed. Starving people is not an efficient way of executing people or committing genocide. If they were victims of starvation, how does that support the Holocaust theory?

I also don't get why the Nazis didn't just export the Jews to Israel?

Also, why do these Holocaust victims deserve a special status above other victims? The Russians and Ukrainians incurred far more casualties than the Jews did. So this makes no sense. Why the favoritism?

And why would Hitler want to kill Jews of low class? The concentration camp victims were mostly Jews of lower class. His gripe was with the Jewish bankers who helped to ruin Germany. Those would be the elite Jews. Not the common people. Why would he exterminate the poor Jews rather than go for the bankers that he blamed for German's downfall? That never made any sense.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby Scepcop » 06 Mar 2014, 23:19

FatFreddy wrote:Here's another one.

The Holocaust Testimonies You DIDN'T Hear
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtlPlZGvgY0


I've seen those clips. They were featured in the documentary "The Last Days of Spielberg's Big Lie".

But that doesn't erase all the thousands of Holocaust survivor accounts. It's too extreme to believe that they are all lying.

Perhaps there were good labor camps as well as bad ones? Maybe different Nazi officials were in charge. After all, it is said that Himmler ordered these extermination camps in secret because he did not want the Allies to know about them. So they did not apply to all labor camps?

Perhaps Auschwitz started out as a normal camp but later became an extermination one?

ProfWag wrote:I invite you to visit Auschwitz and the Holocaust Museum in D.C. If you do and can walk away saying that the whole event was bullshit, well then, all I can say is I guess you're entitled to your opinion.


I've been to Auschwitz. Have you? I just saw a lot of buildings with plaques and memorials. I'm not sure that proves anything though. There was lots of text to read on the plaques, but not enough time to read everything. There were memorials dedicated to different ethnic groups that died there though, not just Jews.

I took a lot of video footage there. I will upload it sometime so you can see it.

I don't get that room stacked with all the clothes and shoes though. What is that supposed to be? Why would the Nazis insist that the captives take their clothes off before being gassed or exterminated? They could just shoot them with their clothes on or gas them right? Was it to deceive them into thinking that they were being deloused from Typhus first?
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby FatFreddy » 07 Mar 2014, 05:23

But that doesn't erase all the thousands of Holocaust survivor accounts. It's too extreme to believe that they are all lying.

I haven't looked at many of those.
http://www.tellingstories.org/holocaust/
http://www.holocaustsurvivors.org/survivors.php
http://holocaustlearning.org/survivors

The few I've looked at seem to be consistent with the camps' being slave labor camps—that the revisionists don't dispute—without gas chambers. Can somebody post something that talks about the gas chambers?

They looked like they were starved, not shot or gassed.

The revisionists say they starved because the food distribution system had broken down toward the end of the war, mostly due to allied bombing of the railway system. A lot of them had typus which makes people look like that.

I also don't get why the Nazis didn't just export the Jews to Israel?

In one of the videos I posted it said a lot of them were sent to Palestine before war broke out. I don't remember which video it was.

And why would Hitler want to kill Jews of low class? The concentration camp victims were mostly Jews of lower class.

The revisionists say he was only using them as slave labor, They say his plan was to deport all of the Jews, not kill them.

When I look at the trouble this guy got into for saying there were no gas chambers,...
http://www.revisionists.com/revisionists/faurisson.html

...it doesn't seem unusual that we never read that an Auschwitz survivor says there were no gas chambers. The press is owned. Do a YouTube search on "Chomsky media".

I'd like to hear what the pro-official version people have to say about this video.
The Dachau Gas Chamber
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4nY6T46aGA#t=1474
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby pwil » 07 Mar 2014, 06:33

FF, I posted 1 clip of a couple of sonderkommandos that speak their own short version account in some detail about a gas chamber and oven for humans. There are others if you just look up testimonials of sonderkommandos.



Paul Rassinier estimates between 987,592 and 1,589,492 ( odd specific estimate) Jews died in concentration camps.
ICRC says 271,000.

So what total are you trying to show us that you believe?
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby pwil » 07 Mar 2014, 06:44

And yes, most Jews at Auschwitz can't confirm that there were gas chambers because they personally didn't see them. They were either told by ones that did, heard rumors, or just suspected that there were. Even Vrba and Wetzler couldn't confirm that there were. They said that they were told second hand. But the sonderkommandos say that they did and they were forced pawns in the extermination process.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby pwil » 07 Mar 2014, 08:09

In your regards to the holes in the gas chamber roofs at Auschwitz.
http://holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/ ... oles.shtml
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby ProfWag » 07 Mar 2014, 09:03

Scepcop wrote:
ProfWag wrote:The preponderance of evidence of the Holocaust is so overwhelming that to deny it existed is nothing less than gross racism and anti-semitism. I won't get involved.


That's a strawman. The Holocaust revisionists do not claim that the Holocaust never happened. They argue that there was no Nazi plan or policy to exterminate the Jewish race. They say that large numbers of Jews died in concentration camps from Typhus and starvation. They argue that no Nazi document has been found that says that there was a Nazi plan to wipe out all Jews in these camps. They also argue that no evidence of gas chambers was found by any scientists or investigators. And they argue that six million Jews could not have possibly died, for many reasons, so the number had to be far less.

No sh!t Scepcop? I think most people realize that what I am referring to is the evidence of genocide. And yes, there is a preponderance of evidence and those that argue against that are racist. IMHO
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby ProfWag » 07 Mar 2014, 09:10

Scepcop wrote:
I've been to Auschwitz. Have you? I just saw a lot of buildings with plaques and memorials. I'm not sure that proves anything though. There was lots of text to read on the plaques, but not enough time to read everything. There were memorials dedicated to different ethnic groups that died there though, not just Jews.

Yes, it was an extremely emotional experience for me.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby FatFreddy » 08 Mar 2014, 05:01

FF, I posted 1 clip of a couple of sonderkommandos that speak their own short version account in some detail about a gas chamber and oven for humans. There are others if you just look up testimonials of sonderkommandos.

Have you seen this analysis of that?

Auschwitz - Why The Gas Chambers Are A Myth - HD (full)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Kl6RHKIQk

I'd like to hear the pro-official version posters' analyses of the info in this video.

The Dachau Gas Chamber
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4nY6T46aGA#t=1474
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby ProfWag » 08 Mar 2014, 19:43

FatFreddy wrote:
The Dachau Gas Chamber
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4nY6T46aGA#t=1474

From what I can tell, the general purpose of that stupid video was to make people think that someone changed their story about Dachau and how it was used as a gas chamber but when things didn't add up, they had to change their story. However, at the 2-minute point in that stupid video, it references the Holocaust Museum and shows the article from their web page. It's underlined that no prisoners were killed in the gas chambers. If you were to read that whole article rather than just the underlined sections of the article in that stupid video, however, you would find that Dachau was used for training the SS Concentration Camp guards. It appears a simple and probable explanation to me that there would be warnings on the wall and various methods built into the facility to test and train the different methods of gassing the prisoners.
Did I mention that it was a stupid video, Freddy? If not, let me emphasize my opinion, that was a stupid video.
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