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Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.

Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby ProfWag » 03 Mar 2014, 05:31

FatFreddy wrote:If we don't have a video of his actually saying those things, we don't know whether the stuff is bogus, or real. Try to find a speech of his in which he says something fascist here.

Seriously? Dude, Hitler died almost 70 years ago. Perhaps you're too young to remember when video cameras were a novelty?
We don't have a video of Jefferson writing the Declaration of Independence either. Perhaps the entire United States is bogus? (Wait, no comments from the peanut gallery...)
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby ProfWag » 03 Mar 2014, 05:45

FatFreddy wrote:If we don't have a video of his actually saying those things, we don't know whether the stuff is bogus, or real. Try to find a speech of his in which he says something fascist here.

Seriously? Dude, Hitler died almost 70 years ago. Perhaps you're too young to remember when video cameras were a novelty?
We don't have a video of Jefferson writing the Declaration of Independence either. Perhaps the entire United States is bogus? (Wait, no comments from the peanut gallery...)
In any event, I started to look up Hitler and then I said to myself "Self, why in the F!#k am I looking up Adolph Hilter!" I couldn't give 2 shits what one of the worst people in the world said on video. The evidence that he was a madman is everywhere. If you find anything to the contrary, let us know. Otherwise, I hope this topic ends soon.
Last edited by ProfWag on 03 Mar 2014, 05:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby Misha » 03 Mar 2014, 05:48

ProfWag wrote:

Considerin that Bergen Belsen was a camp where sick people were sent, it makes sense that a lot of people died of typhus while there. As such, to use it as evidence that Jews died because of typhus instead of gas chambers is extremely misleading. Additionally, before swearing by this blog, we might want to dig a little deeper into the honesty of the blogger...
http://samuraimohel.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/is-scrapbookpages-com-a-holocaust-denial-site/


Good advice, ProWag. Now take your own advice and let's at least look at David Irving's research in which he too accuses those researchers of plagiarism or regurgitation regarding the facts of WWII. I'm all for hearing both sides.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby ProfWag » 03 Mar 2014, 05:54

Misha wrote: I'm all for hearing both sides.

I am too Misha, on virtually any topic but this one. I just can't bring myself to conduct any kind of meaningful research on this subject any longer. Sorry, but in the words of "Shark Tank," I'm out.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby Misha » 03 Mar 2014, 06:08

ProfWag wrote:
Misha wrote: I'm all for hearing both sides.

I am too Misha, on virtually any topic but this one. I just can't bring myself to conduct any kind of meaningful research on this subject any longer. Sorry, but in the words of "Shark Tank," I'm out.


And therein lies the control. A self-imposed "invisible electrified fence" that stops even the most honest and stoic researcher from digging. Otherwise, you just might join the ranks of the disenfranchised.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby ProfWag » 03 Mar 2014, 06:41

Misha wrote:
Good advice, ProWag. Now take your own advice and let's at least look at David Irving's research in which he too accuses those researchers of plagiarism or regurgitation regarding the facts of WWII. I'm all for hearing both sides.

Yea, David Irving is someone I want to be proud to reference as his views are quite valid. Or not. For those of you who don't know David irving, here are a couple tidbits:
"The content of his speeches and interviews often displays a distinctly pro-Nazi and anti-Jewish bias. He makes surprising and often unfounded assertions about the Nazi regime which tend to exonerate the Nazis for the appalling atrocities which they inflicted on the Jews."
"The charges which I have found to be substantially true include the charges that Irving has for his own ideological reasons persistently and deliberately misrepresented and manipulated historical evidence"
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/apr/11/irving1

Feel free to form your own conclusions about the validity of David Irving as referenced by Misha.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby Misha » 03 Mar 2014, 07:05

ProfWag wrote:
Misha wrote:
Good advice, ProWag. Now take your own advice and let's at least look at David Irving's research in which he too accuses those researchers of plagiarism or regurgitation regarding the facts of WWII. I'm all for hearing both sides.

Yea, David Irving is someone I want to be proud to reference as his views are quite valid. Or not. For those of you who don't know David irving, here are a couple tidbits:
"The content of his speeches and interviews often displays a distinctly pro-Nazi and anti-Jewish bias. He makes surprising and often unfounded assertions about the Nazi regime which tend to exonerate the Nazis for the appalling atrocities which they inflicted on the Jews."
"The charges which I have found to be substantially true include the charges that Irving has for his own ideological reasons persistently and deliberately misrepresented and manipulated historical evidence"
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/apr/11/irving1

Feel free to form your own conclusions about the validity of David Irving as referenced by Misha.


I disagree with your obviously biased position on Irving. Again, I smell fear and guilt when one bathwaters all of Irving's information. The important thing is look at his information without a jaundiced eye. To throw people (Irving) in jail because we might disagree with their research only invites repression as I have said before. Christ, even the late Christopher Hitchens came out to defend Irving's right to be heard and not be censored. Personally, ProfWag, you keep betraying your fear and guilt when you ONLY mention Jews as victims. What about the other ethnic groups? Can you honestly look in the mirror and say the United States and its western allies did not engage in a holocaust of the German people after the war? Do not get me wrong here. Two wrongs do not make it right. I do not support the Nazis and condemn what took place in the camps. I just want to know how and why and what took place. I believe in looking at all sides no matter how painful it might be.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby SydneyPSIder » 03 Mar 2014, 11:34

FatFreddy wrote:
Although his speeches, letters, and conversations about eradicating the Jews is not proof alone of the genocide, it shows that Hitler isn't as much of a good guy that you seem to portray him as to be. I delivered my last post because you asked to see some anti Semitism in his own words.

If we don't have a video of his actually saying those things, we don't know whether the stuff is bogus, or real. Try to find a speech of his in which he says something fascist here.

You will have to go to the primary sources yourself to satisfy your curiosity, or sources very close to the primary sources. Once again it's all about the veracity of 'the document' in every case. The only document you will trust is plain unedited video, and in an epistemological sense you are right. However, all of his speeches and writings cannot have been doctored, particularly Mein Kampf which is easily available.

In a sense, the Nazis really set themselves up as patsies throughout this by these kinds of extreme racially motivated policies and writings -- they would pay the price as war criminals for that alone, if they ever lost, and they would have to consider that they might lose. as one author noted, there was no real concept of 'human rights' until the fallout from WWII, and as we know every superpower had its colonies and oppressed people somewhere -- the new work done in defining human rights and creating the UN and thinking about ethics etc occurred at the end of WWII and because of WWII and spelt the end of direct colonialism (and ushered in neo-colonialism and puppet leaders in some cases) partly as an ethical thing and partly because the European superpowers were so weakened by the war they could no longer enforce their colonial power relations with indigenous ppls in Africa, India, the middle east, and so on, and in fact the colonies had aided them in surviving the war. this also saw 'reverse emigration' from many of the colonies to the parent countries in the 50s and 60s and on for the first time.

People were awfully treated by the Portuguese, the English, the French in their respective colonies right up until WWII -- e.g. in East Timor if a Portuguese colonist came along a road, the locals by law had to jump into the nearest ditch and avert their gaze until they were gone. In Palestine between the wars under British rule locals were strapped to army trucks and placed on special open dollies in front of trains to try to prevent bomb attacks (similar to IED attacks today) -- with the British servicemen often killing the bound hostage at the end out of spite -- right through the 1930s. 'Brown people' were held to somehow be genetically inferior and subhuman by Europeans, because if they didn't have steel and rifles and gunpowder or other advanced martial technology, well, that just proved it, didn't it? Darwinian theories of 'social evolution' conveniently held sway, no matter that anyone around the world could easily be educated to the same level as the Europeans and excel over many of them. Winston Churchill was at the forefront of this attitude, saw the middle eastern oil resources as basically his to take, ditto for India, and so on.

The several famines of India were brought about largely by the introduction of train lines ('progress', sold as improving services) to take wheat and other produce away even quicker, controlled in local power bases by the local big men in league with the British. The story was always that it was more important to feed the empire than the locals, markets are markets, money is money, and so on.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby FatFreddy » 03 Mar 2014, 19:50

Seriously? Dude, Hitler died almost 70 years ago. Perhaps you're too young to remember when video cameras were a novelty?
We don't have a video of Jefferson writing the Declaration of Independence either. Perhaps the entire United States is bogus? (Wait, no comments from the peanut gallery...)

This statement doesn't prove that these quotes are genuine.
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/statements.htm

I think most people know that the internet is filled with disinfo. Look at the NIST report. That's a perfect example of a bunch of sophists getting together to try to obfuscate a truth.

The evidence that he was a madman is everywhere. If you find anything to the contrary, let us know.

All we have is second-hand info. The fact that there's a large quantity of official version info doesn't make it valid. If you google "Apollo hoax", there'll be about fifteen times as much pro-Apollo info as hoax-believer info even though the hoax proof totally blows the pro-Apollo camp out of the water.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3067&start=0

The fact that you're pro-Apollo also shows that you don't even believe your own arguments when you debate here.

To see some info that maintains that Hitler wasn't a madman, see post #1 of this thread.

You pro-official version posters are still lamely playing down these analyses of the Holocaust which shows you are less-than-objective to say the least.
"Robert Faurisson: The Problem Of Gas Chambers - (Le Probleme Des Chambres a Gaz)."
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... %22+&sm=12

The Dachau Gas Chamber
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4nY6T46aGA#t=1474

Auschwitz - Why The Gas Chambers Are A Myth
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... Myth&sm=12

ONE THIRD of the HOLOCAUST
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... UST+&sm=12

BUCHENWALD A Dumb Dumb Portrayal Of Evil
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... vil+&sm=12


David Irving speaks German and goes around Germany interviewing people who were there.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... g%20&sm=12

I urge people to actually listen to what he says before passing judgement. Another guy to listen to is Mark Weber.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... 0ww2&sm=12
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... aust&sm=12
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby ProfWag » 03 Mar 2014, 20:07

To me, this statement:
Misha wrote:I do not support the Nazis and condemn what took place in the camps.

Seems to contradict this statement:
Misha wrote: Christ, even the late Christopher Hitchens came out to defend Irving's right to be heard and not be censored.

I wholeheartedly agree that people should have a right to an opinion, however, if a person is passing off lies and misrepresentations because of blatant racism and not presenting facts, then I'm not a proponent of supporting that person's views. As such, the only conclusion that I can draw is that you support his views. Would it be ethical of me to recommend you learn about Tibetan lama's by reading "The Third Eye" by Lobsang Rampa?
We should learn from factual history and not from racist liars.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby Misha » 03 Mar 2014, 22:32

ProfWag wrote:To me, this statement:
Misha wrote:I do not support the Nazis and condemn what took place in the camps.

Seems to contradict this statement:
Misha wrote: Christ, even the late Christopher Hitchens came out to defend Irving's right to be heard and not be censored.

I wholeheartedly agree that people should have a right to an opinion, however, if a person is passing off lies and misrepresentations because of blatant racism and not presenting facts, then I'm not a proponent of supporting that person's views. As such, the only conclusion that I can draw is that you support his views. Would it be ethical of me to recommend you learn about Tibetan lama's by reading "The Third Eye" by Lobsang Rampa?
We should learn from factual history and not from racist liars.


Bathwatering again, ProWag. No contradiction in the least. It is a matter of exactly what went on in the camps. Tell me, do you think the internment of Japanese in U.S. mainland camps was correct?

As for factual history we all know that is always been written by the victors. You seem to buy into this without looking at the other side.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby ProfWag » 04 Mar 2014, 03:42

Misha wrote: It is a matter of exactly what went on in the camps.

What exactly went on in the camps, Misha? Were there atrocities as history tells us or wasn't there, as David Irving tells us? David Irving offers $1,000 for proof that Hitler knew of the Holocaust.http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/index.html
Rudolph Hoess writes and states that the orders came from Hitler verbally. http://mailstar.net/Hoss-Memoirs.html
Which one do you believe, Misha?
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby pwil » 04 Mar 2014, 14:45

explain to these people that their hell never happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vi ... _Auschwitz


I looked up some random names and found that they did really exist.
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/america ... ic-12.html
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... odies.html

And for the victims who did die from typhus and starvation, their deaths are still Nazi responsibility for they should have never been in concentration camps in the first place.


As a person of German descent, I am horrified by the survivors' stories, photos, and Nazi war criminal testimonies.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby FatFreddy » 05 Mar 2014, 05:13

explain to these people that their hell never happened.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vi ... _Auschwitz
(excerpt)
Hana Brady[3] May 16, 1931 October 23, 1944 13 years, 160 days Czech Jewish Arrived at the camp on October 23, 1944, and was gassed immediately.


How can her having been gassed be proven? Again we have the war of the documents. There's really no way to verify what's bogus and what's true. How can you be sure the info in the Red Cross report is bogus?
http://www.polskawalczaca.com/viewtopic ... 36&t=18054

That's why we have to take stuff such as the analyses in these videos seriously.

"Robert Faurisson: The Problem Of Gas Chambers - (Le Probleme Des Chambres a Gaz)."
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... %22+&sm=12

The Dachau Gas Chamber
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4nY6T46aGA#t=1474

Auschwitz - Why The Gas Chambers Are A Myth
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... Myth&sm=12

ONE THIRD of the HOLOCAUST
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... UST+&sm=12

BUCHENWALD A Dumb Dumb Portrayal Of Evil
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... vil+&sm=12

You pro-official version people are lamely ignoring these analyses.


And for the victims who did die from typhus and starvation, their deaths are still Nazi responsibility for they should have never been in concentration camps in the first place.

The revisionists don't dispute this. They're merely trying to separate what the Germans really did do from the lies and exaggerations and distortions.

Taking people prisoner and carting them away to work as slaves is reprehensible.
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Re: Were We Told the Truth about World War 2?

Postby Misha » 05 Mar 2014, 05:51

FatFreddy wrote: "
The revisionists don't dispute this. They're merely trying to separate what the Germans really did do from the lies and exaggerations and distortions.

Taking people prisoner and carting them away to work as slaves is reprehensible."

Agreed. Now let's look at the details in which FatFreddy has put forth. Let us be open-minded and evaluate both sides of the argument. Let's not fine or throw in jail those researchers who challenge the record. We should embrace all viewpoints and come to a complete understanding of what happened.
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