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JFK 50TH Anniversary

Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.

Re: JFK 50TH Anniversary

Postby SydneyPSIder » 14 May 2014, 15:58

And let's look at it the other way, as pointed out in several episodes of 'The Men Who Killed Kennedy' pasted in above -- particularly 'The Guilty Men'.

LBJ had the most to lose if JFK continued to live and remained president. He would be taken off the next ticket as VP, and possibly investigated and jailed as a criminal. A lot of his business associates were looking at losing valuable rebates under JFK, and still others like KBR and weapons manufacturers would not make a killing if the Vietnam War did not proceed. If JFK was killed, on the other hand, LBJ would automatically be made president, he could perpetuate the Vietnam War, continue the handouts to oil producers, continue with his own crooked dealings and kickbacks, and so on. Apart from the incredible executive power he would gain, there was also an automatic reputational enhancement in the public mind with the office of President, even if not elected to the position, thus making any later criminal prosecution increasingly less likely.

It is known LBJ used Mac Wallace for several earlier killings. Mac Wallace was facing the death penalty for murder at one stage and was let off with a 5 year suspended sentence so he could go free immediately and do more hits for LBJ as and when required -- the only way he could be set free under those terms was if someone very important was manipulating the judge and judicial system in the South on his behalf -- the judge's ruling is bizarre, even by Southern standards, and easily viewable on the public record. Further, Mac Wallace's fingerprint was found on a box in the so-called 'sniper's nest', whereas there is no convincing evidence linking LHO to the rifle, except a clumsy single 'palm print' on the barrel which could easily have been planted later -- and was not found in a fingerprint check upfront, and it would be difficult to fire a rifle and run off and only leave a palm print and no other fingerprints. It is also highly unlikely LHO ran down several flights of stairs and appeared unflustered in a lunch room 90 seconds later, where witnesses attested he was standing all along -- and other people who were in the stairwell at the time reported no-one going past, especially not a maniac leaping down the stairs. Then there are the numerous problems of accurately aiming and discharging the single shot poor quality rifle with a misaligned scope in a few seconds -- this is a classic 'plant' rifle. Then there is the further problem of mismatched ammunition throughout the exercise, along with the removal of JFK's brain before the autopsy to disallow trajectory observations to be made. And provably altered photos of the wounds that occurred to Kennedy's skull, where anyone can see huge chunks of skull coming off in the Zapruder footage with Jackie Kennedy actually crawling over the boot of the presidential limousine to retrieve a piece of skull and try to somehow keep JFK alive -- remember this footage was suppressed for public viewing for many years, until its release in the early 70s which prompted a public outcry and a new investigation and the conclusion of a conspiracy to assassinate this time -- Dan Rather simply lied to the public in news reports about what he had seen when he was allowed a 'private viewing' of the footage closer to the time, a very suspicious occurrence in itself. Anyhow, the doctored photos show very little damage to the skull with a single small bullet entrance hole which we know from just viewing the Zapruder footage is not possible.

There is however little doubt LHO was a casual and irregular intelligence operative who believed he was being primed for something important, and who may have liked the intrigue and excitement of believing he was doing something important in intelligence as a career, disguised by being planted in several nothing jobs as a cover -- and all the jobs were through LBJ's southern cronies' businesses. The characters named by Jim Garrison all appear to be involved in the network -- David Ferrie, Guy Banister, Clay Shaw, Jack Ruby, even the CAP itself as a movement is suspicious given its founder, another LBJ crony who more than co-incidentally happened to own the TSBD building as well. Apparently Jack Ruby knew LHO as a child, for instance. David Ferrie was in the same CAP platoon as LHO. LHO was, apparently, asked on occasion to guard and escort other intelligence figures of interest such as Dr Mary Sherman and his to-be lover Judyth Very Baker.

At different times LHO was pro-Castro and anti-Castro. He associated with the mysterious ex-CIA Guy Banister who apparently was his 'handler', handing out various pro-Castro and anti-Castro pamphlets in the street as the situation required. He appears to have been sent to Russia by an American intel program that attempted to 'infiltrate' Russia with fake 'defectors' one at a time, whom the Russians always suspected and never trusted. This program was known to be active at the time he went. The fact he mysteriously spoke fluent Russian (according to his Russian wife) before he arrived in Russia suggests he had been primed in his earlier military service for this role. He was then conveniently tarred later as a 'Communist sympathiser' when using him as a patsy. As Jim Garrett noted, all LHO ever wanted to be was a 'good Marine' and clearly felt he served some useful and patriotic purpose acting as an intelligence irregular -- an impressionable and somewhat lost young man manipulated by discourses of patriotism and service and finally used up as a disposable pawn.
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Re: JFK 50TH Anniversary

Postby SydneyPSIder » 15 May 2014, 15:31

In 1979, the House Select Committee on Assassinations stated in its Final Report that the Committee was "inclined to believe that Oswald was in Clinton [Louisiana] in late August, early September 1963, and that he was in the company of David Ferrie, if not Clay Shaw,"[20] and that witnesses in Clinton, Louisiana "established an association of an undetermined nature between Ferrie, Shaw and Oswald less than three months before the assassination".[21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clay_Shaw


This also jibes with Judyth Very Baker's claims that LHO had gotten mixed up with some anti-JFK people (presumably 'tasked' to do this by his handler Guy Banister as a new 'intelligence operation', without realising he was being set up as the patsy in the plot) but stayed with it in the hope of somehow thwarting it. So he was aware of the broad premise of the plot, but was an unwilling participant, at least according to JVB.

Clearly ProfWag is 'yesterday's man' from the 1960s cover-up, as he's not even up to speed on the findings of a 1979 House Select Committee on Assassinations that was especially created to deal with the public outcry following the public release of the Zapruder film. The House Select Committee of course suggested there was evidence of a conspiracy, but failed to go on to investigate or name the other more principal suspects behind the assassination. Much of the American public knows or suspects by now of course.
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Re: JFK 50TH Anniversary

Postby SydneyPSIder » 16 May 2014, 12:06

Lastly, it's been noted that LBJ's secret service detail protecting him reported that LBJ hit the deck very promptly as soon as shots rang out in Dealey Plaza, diving to the floor of his car -- which was conveniently a long way off from JFK's in the motorcade. The story was reported that the secret service agent protecting him threw him to the floor and covered him, but in fact that agent has reported out of session that for some reason LBJ dived to the floor of the car as soon as shots rang out leaving them rather quizzical, as they had no idea what was happening or what the somewhat muted shots signified at the juncture -- there was simply a 'popping' sound and at a fair distance from LBJ's car as JFK's car traversed the plaza. How was LBJ aware of what was going on so presciently?

Further, his mistress has reported that after LBJ came off a phone call the previous day, he said to her 'As of tomorrow, those SOB's will never embarrass me again. That's not a threat. That's a promise.'

The night before the Kennedy assassination, Lyndon Baines Johnson met with Dallas tycoons, FBI moguls and organized crime kingpins - emerging from the conference to tell his mistress Madeleine Duncan Brown that "those SOB's" would never embarrass him again. It's a jaw-dropping deposition and it's the biggest JFK smoking gun there is - despite the fact that it has received little media attention.

Before her death on June 22 2002, prolific author and lecturer Robert Gaylon Ross had the opportunity to conduct an 80 minute sit-down interview with Madeleine Duncan Brown and from that lengthy discussion the truth about exactly who was behind the assassination of JFK was exposed.

Brown said that the plan to kill JFK had its origins in the 1960 Democratic Convention, at which John F. Kennedy was elected as presidential candidate with Johnson as his running mate, where H.L. Hunt, an American oil tycoon, and Lyndon Johnson hatched the assassination plot.

"When they met in California Joe Kennedy, John Kennedy's father, and H.L. Hunt met met three days prior to the election - they finally cut a deal according to John Currington (an aide to H.L. Hunt) and H.L. finally agreed that Lyndon would go as the vice president....this came from the horse's mouth way back in 1960 - when H.L. came back to Dallas I was walking....with him....and he made the remark, 'we may have lost a battle but we're going to win a war,' and then the day of the assassination he said 'well, we won the war'," said Brown.

Brown said that in the immediate aftermath of the convention Hunt and Johnson mapped out a strategy to kill Kennedy.

"It was a total political crime and H.L. Hunt really controlled what actually happened to John Kennedy - he and Lyndon Johnson," said Brown.

"They had this lodge....outside of Dallas and they would meet there....he chose different people to do certain things for him and I'm sure it went on about two years prior to the assassination of John Kennedy."

In the video Brown describes the make-up and activities of the "8F group" which revolved socially and politically around Johnson and Hunt and included high rolling oil tycoons, judges and then FBI director J. Edgar Hoover.

The group included Jack Ruby, the Dallas nightclub owner who would later shoot the patsy Lee Harvey Oswald dead on November 24.

"We were playing poker at the Carousel Club and Jack Ruby came over and he said 'you know what this is?' and I looked up....he had this motorcade route....it stung me that he would be this involved in knowing where the President of the United States was....at that time in my life I thought they were untouchable," said Brown.

Brown described Ruby as the "in man" in Texas who could be trusted to arrange call girls, drugs, gambling fixes and even contract killings.

The group met for a party in Dallas hosted by Clint Murchison, another business tycoon with close links to the Genovese mafia, on November 21st 1963, the night before the assassination. Those present at the event included J. Edgar Hoover, Clyde Tolson, John J. McCloy, Jack Ruby, George Brown (of Brown and Root), numerous mafia kingpins, several newspaper and TV reporters, and Richard Nixon.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/au ... 806jfk.htm



Johnson appointed the Warren Commission to investigate who he had killed.

The day after Kennedy's burial Johnson issued Executive Order 273 reversing Kennedy's Order 263 to pull out of Vietnam thus beginning the War in Vietnam and giving the military industrial complex what it wanted billions in defense spending on a long, unwinnable war.

Then there is the very telling photo of Congressman Albert Thomas winking at LBJ in front of Jackie Kennedy on the return flight as if to say "we won!"

http://www.rense.com/general40/thewnk.htm

Image

And then there is the question of the whereabouts of one GHW Bush on the day of the assassination -- another mysterious and shady Texan 'independent oil man' with links to the CIA, suddenly propelled a few years later to heading the CIA and then propelled into the Vice Presidency -- where Ronald Reagan survived an attempt on his life in a carbon copy of the JFK incident -- and finally becoming President of the US later. The thing is, GHWB of all people in the world, already apparently complete with political aspirations, could not remember where he was on the day of the assassination, surely a rather important political event in US history. And in fact seemed to oscillate between Dallas and another township, depending on whether you listen to him, or check his hotel records.

And finally still the problem of apparent time travel and/or omniscience of a 'punk' like LHO who strategically got himself a job in the TSBD weeks before the visit to Dallas was announced or the route announced to the public, and past whom the motorcade just happened to be diverted, where the secret servicemen just happened to step off the presidential limo just beforehand under orders and against all ordinary secret service protocols, where the Dealey Plaza area had NOT been scouted out or patrolled by secret service to check all buildings and make sure windows were closed, that they were told they didn't need to be there that day, and the 4 escorting police bikes were told to ride behind the rear wheel of the limo in another major and unheard of breach of escort protocol. The act of the limo driver braking and slowing almost to a stop was also deeply suspicious, as well as the route change slowing down and making a 90 degree turn -- although the limo driver 'apologised' later to his widow -- I think he may have had some rather odd orders he was made to carry out. The secret service supervisor who told the guys to stand off the back of the limo should really have been investigated for criminal conspiracy, although no doubt his reply would have been he was just acting on orders from even higher up if he ever cracked under interrogation -- not that there was an investigation or interrogation.
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Re: JFK 50TH Anniversary

Postby SydneyPSIder » 19 May 2014, 21:30

ProfWag wrote:
SydneyPSIder wrote:Just noticed this pic at random of the 'interesting' police escort in a kind of flying V behind the rear wheel of the presidential limo on that day. The cops look to be more interested in 'protecting' the Secret Service guys in the car behind, lol. Oh, the ironing.

I'm really not sure what your point is. There could have been 50 Secret Service Agents around the vehicle, on the back bumper, or wherever, but they wouldn't have been able to get in the way of a bullet coming from an angle from the 6th Floor. The only thing that would have protected him would have been a cover over the vehicle which is an entirely different topic altogether.
Once again, the evidence presented doesn't have anything to do with LHO being the only person doing the shooting or that it wasn't from the 6th Floor of the TSBD.

The only problem with Profwag's view, and as usual it's a large problem, is that the secret service ordinarily would have scouted out the entire route and had men everywhere, particularly in the plaza. If they saw windows open in buildings like the TSBD, they would have gone into the building to make sure they were closed. Instead, we see them all but stood down for the day to a skeleton crew, and those staff in turn were instructed to move away from the presidential limo. You can only conclude that elements in the Secret Service at that time were not just derelict in their duty and protocols, but complicit in the assassination attempt. Then apparently there were people at the grassy knoll and elsewhere who had somehow obtained fake secret service passes and were not secret service at all.

It was believed that there were 3 possible places attempts were going to be made on JFK's life in Dallas -- if one didn't work, another one would be tried. These were the airport, Dealey Plaza, and the hall at which he was going to speak.
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Re: JFK 50TH Anniversary

Postby ProfWag » 20 May 2014, 08:00

"Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to device." Walter Scott

Syd, you have so many different things going on from LBJ to Bush to the Secret Service. You're pointing so many fingers that a millipede couldn't keep up. Often times the truth lies in the simplest of situations.
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Re: JFK 50TH Anniversary

Postby SydneyPSIder » 20 May 2014, 08:50

ProfWag wrote:"Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to device." Walter Scott

Syd, you have so many different things going on from LBJ to Bush to the Secret Service. You're pointing so many fingers that a millipede couldn't keep up. Often times the truth lies in the simplest of situations.

'Deceive'

Once again, a fact free deposition from ProfWag, another illegitimate attempt at argumentation.

Unfortunately the assassination of JFK isn't simple, the bizarre murder of LHO by Jack Ruby and the many connections between various actors by its nature makes it very complex.

But yes, LBJ is deeply implicated, as are a number of government organs. They of course would want to create a simple cover story, set up a 'patsy', so shallow thinkers like ProfWag have easy answers. Unless ProfWag is loosely or not so loosely associated with the plotters and wants to add to the smokescreen. Either that or he's just trolling for kicks.

Enough info has been posted here over several pages to make ProfWag's claims laughable. The gun that was sent to an armoury for testing had a rusted out action, pin wouldn't work, misaligned scope, and so on. It was a 'throw down' used to frame LHO. That and Mac Wallace's fingerprint found on a box in the sniper's nest point to a set-up immediately. Shots came from elsewhere according to many honest eyewitnesses, as did a puff or puffs of smoke. JFK was shot in the throat and temple from the front or front-side. Two shots could not have conceivably done as much damage in as many directions as we clearly witness and injuries that occurred -- massive amount of backflipping by the ersatz 'investigators' and Warren Commission to explain away the extra shots -- the unfortunate testimony of a bystander who was injured by flying chips from the footpath made the cover-up harder. Windscreen had a bullet hole which was replaced back at the Ford factory, destroying evidence in a criminal investigation -- car also had a bullet mark on the chrome windscreen frame. Zapruder's film suppressed for a decade, with Dan Rather used as a lying conduit to the public about the contents. LHO could not have possibly run down 4 flights of stairs, invisibly passed people on the stairs who saw no-one, bought a Coke and have been sipping it within 90 seconds of the last shot without being the last bit ruffled or out of breath. LHO was a low level intelligence asset used by the CIA, with a number of prior suspicious associations and activities. Secret service did such a bad job that day across the board it had to be deliberate. Dealey Plaza was LBJ's kill zone. Autopsy was done in the wrong place by the wrong people, proper criminal investigation was never conducted, the autopsy photos have clearly been faked. Even the 1979 House Committee on Assassinations found the Warren Commission report faulty and suggested a conspiracy. LBJ and a number of Texan cronies clear major beneficiaries from the assassination, in oil profits, infrastructure and arms sales -- LBJ had very long-standing decades old connections with KBR (now KBR Halliburton) who had financed him throughout his political career. This has been hosed down from the top. LHO finally realised that for all his patriotism and 'service' in the Marines and as a seemingly important 'intelligence asset' following leaving the Marines that he had been used up as a patsy -- he was certainly involved in the plot, explaining perfectly his behaviour and somewhat suspicious announcements on arrest -- once he announced to the world he was a patsy and it became obvious to the plotters he wouldn't remain silent and take the rap, he had to be silenced.
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Re: JFK 50TH Anniversary

Postby ProfWag » 20 May 2014, 18:11

SydneyPSIder wrote:Once again, a fact free deposition from ProfWag, another illegitimate attempt at argumentation.

"fact free" eh? Perhaps that's because the "facts" have been presented many, many times before.
Here are the facts:
LHO attempted to assassination General Walker
LHO carried a "bag" of curtain rods on the day of the assassination. Why? Because it was a rifle.
LHO was seen in the TSBD moments after the assassination.
LHO ordered a rifle that used the same ammo as the one's found at the crime scene
LHO disappeared immediately after the assassination
LHO shot at Officer Tippit as witnessed many many
Forensic evidence has clearly shown that JFK's wounds could have come from the rear and rear only
Everything else that Syd has been presenting is nothing more than circumstantial and don't point to the events of November 22.
Fact: Could there have been a conspiracy? Perhaps. Even, perhaps, it was scheduled for that day. And perhaps someone talked LHO into doing it. I don't dispute that. (I doubt it, but don't dispute it.) But the evidence for the events in Dailey Plaza points to LHO and only LHO. Sorry, but those are the facts.
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Re: JFK 50TH Anniversary

Postby SydneyPSIder » 20 May 2014, 18:33

ProfWag wrote:
SydneyPSIder wrote:Once again, a fact free deposition from ProfWag, another illegitimate attempt at argumentation.

"fact free" eh? Perhaps that's because the "facts" have been presented many, many times before.
Here are the facts:
LHO attempted to assassination General Walker
LHO carried a "bag" of curtain rods on the day of the assassination. Why? Because it was a rifle.
LHO was seen in the TSBD moments after the assassination.
LHO ordered a rifle that used the same ammo as the one's found at the crime scene
LHO disappeared immediately after the assassination
LHO shot at Officer Tippit as witnessed many many
Forensic evidence has clearly shown that JFK's wounds could have come from the rear and rear only
Everything else that Syd has been presenting is nothing more than circumstantial and don't point to the events of November 22.
Fact: Could there have been a conspiracy? Perhaps. Even, perhaps, it was scheduled for that day. And perhaps someone talked LHO into doing it. I don't dispute that. (I doubt it, but don't dispute it.) But the evidence for the events in Dailey Plaza points to LHO and only LHO. Sorry, but those are the facts.

they're not facts, they're a mix of lies and misrepresentations that suit the conspirators to have people believe.

How do you know LHO wasn't told by his handler to have a go at General Walker to create a back story?

The curtain rods were not a rifle, the guy who took him in the car said they were something like 18" long. Couldn't have been a rifle. It's in the series pasted in above -- the guy himself is talking.

He was in the TSBD, yes, where else would he be? There were lots of ppl around the place. He was on the 2nd floor, not the 6th. He had gotten the job a few weeks before showing remarkable prescience he could not have possessed or time travel ability or else someone set it up for him and told him to be there. There were lots of other ppl in the TSBD. There are even ppl who saw someone else on the 6th floor at the other end of the floor to the sniper's nest, which has been captured in a photo which was cropped in Life magazine for some reason.

What ammo was found at the crime scene? A planted bullet was found at the hospital magically on JFK's stretcher. Interesting stuff, eh? Then the bullet that took the back of his head off must have been a frangible bullet, different from other bullets that were fired at him. Similarly, the bullets that killed Tippitt do not match the revolver LHO was carrying.

LHO disappeared immediately after the assassination because he was involved in the plot, as an intelligence asset that had no idea what was about to happen to him. He was working it out as he realised police were looking for someone matching his description -- the police bailed him up in the TSBD the first time based on what description??? His workmates vouched for him and said he was working with them. How could the police have possibly had a description to go after, unless they had been told to look for a certain sort of person as set up by the conspirators with inside lines to the Dallas PD? After the assassination event which he was partly or wholly aware of as going to happen that day, he realised only with the police interest what part he was really supposed to be playing.

LHO probably went nowhere near Tippitt, other witnesses saw 2 men in a car shoot Tippitt -- I would argue these are the real escaping assassins who had been pulled up and were armed -- this would of course explain perfectly the bullet mismatch between LHO's revolver and the bullets that killed Tippitt.

The 'forensic evidence' about JFK's wounds are all lies, as explained above. Photos were faked minimising the damage that had been touched up -- anyone can see they have been faked when compared to the damage in the Zapruder footage, compromising footage that the public was never intended to see. His autopsy was done at the Navy Bethesda hospital, by inexperienced doctors. It was a criminal act to remove his body from the first hospital and retire to Bethesda. His brain had already been removed and placed somewhere so you could not identify trajectories through the brain to do proper forensics -- so ProfWag is out and out lying here as well. The guy who took a few snaps of the damage was 'suicided' a couple of years later. ProfWag is just flat out lying here, and you can see that if you watch the series above. The wound in his throat happened from the front. A frangible bullet then struck his right temple and exited out the rear doing the final fatal damage.

As noted, why would serious assassins who had to see JFK dead simply leave it up to 1 guy with a very crappy rifle who was a very bad shot? LHO didn't have a motive to kill JFK -- except that he was a wannabe intelligence operative ex-Marine who believed he was doing something important for the CIA. None of the motives ascribed to him make much sense. Then he was pro Castro and anti Castro at different times, handing out flaky pamphlets bang in the middle of the intelligence district of New Orleans with the address of an 'ex'-CIA PI firm on the Castro pamphlets -- the address of Guy Banister, his handler -- because no-one leaves The Company, you're never truly ex-CIA.

Out of 2 major theories -- ProfWag's crappy theory of a deranged lone gunman, and a broader conspiracy involving LBJ, cronies, beneficiaries, hired assassins and a patsy -- the assassins/patsy theory fits the totality of evidence far, far better.

Apparently, from what I've heard, ProfWag is of an age and of a background to have perhaps been a 'contemporary' of these events, if you know what I mean. Methinks he doth protest too much.
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Re: JFK 50TH Anniversary

Postby ProfWag » 23 May 2014, 09:51

SydneyPSIder wrote:they're not facts, they're a mix of lies and misrepresentations that suit the conspirators to have people believe.

How do you know LHO wasn't told by his handler to have a go at General Walker to create a back story?

The curtain rods were not a rifle, the guy who took him in the car said they were something like 18" long. Couldn't have been a rifle. It's in the series pasted in above -- the guy himself is talking.

.

Really? You're saying I lied and misrepresented facts? Let's take a look at that, shall we? I'll start off with your first two comments and then I'm going to bed. When you decide to post something relevant using your own thinking and not the thinking of someone else's conspiracy theory, we'll talk again. Oh yea, by the way, according to my father, I was conceived the night JFK was shot. Sorry that you think I'm an old curmudgeon but 50 for me is looming in a couple months!
Okay, point #1: I do not know if LHO was told to "gave a go at General Walker." All I know that, although not impossible, is pretty much beyond a reasonable doubt, that LHO shot at the General. So, we know that he has no problem shooting at people. There is no forensic or other evidence that has ever been presented that LHO had help with Gen. Walker. If you have it, please present it.

Point #2: Let's talk misrepresentation, shall we? You're saying that "the guy who took him in the car said they were something like 18" long." That is a gross misrepresentation of the facts, Syd. As I've pointed out, please post accurate information. Here is the actual testimony of "the guy who took him in the car." (Wes Frazier was "the guy.")

"Mr. BALL. Did you notice whether or not Lee had a package that
looked like a lunch package that morning?

Mr. FRAZIER. You know like I told you earlier, I say, he didn't
take his lunch because I remember right when I got in the car I
asked him where was his lunch and he said he was going to buy his
lunch that day.

Mr. BALL. He told you that that day, did he?

Mr. FRAZIER. Right. That is right. So, I assumed he was going to
buy it, you know, from that catering service man like a lot of
the boys do. They don't bring their lunch but they go out and buy
their lunch there.

Mr. BALL. What did he do about the package in the back seat when
he got out of the car?

Mr. FRAZIER. Like I say, I was watching the gages and watched the
car for a few minutes before I cut it off.

Mr. BALL. Yes.

Mr. FRAZIER. He got out of the car and he was wearing the jacket
that has the big sleeves in them and he put the package that he
had, you know, that he told me was curtain rods up under his arm,
you know, and so he walked down behind the car and standing over
there at the end of the cyclone hence waiting for me to get out
of the car, and so quick as I cut the engine off and started out
of the car, shut the door just as I was starting out just like
getting out of the car, he started walking off and so I followed
him in.

So, eventually there he kept getting a little further ahead
of me and I noticed we had plenty of time to get there because it
is not too far from the Depository and usually I walk around and
watch them switching the trains because you have to watch where
you are going if you have to cross the tracks.

One day you go across one track and maybe there would be
some cars sitting there and there would be another diesel coming
there, so you have to watch when you cross the tracks. I just
walked along and I just like to watch them switch the cars, so
eventually he kept getting a little further ahead of me and by
that time we got down there pretty close to the Depository
Building there, I say, he would be as much as, I would say,
roughly 50 feet in front of me but I didn't try to catch up with
him because I knew I had plenty of time so I just took my time
walking up there.

Mr. BALL. Did you usually walk up there together.

Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; we did.

Mr. BALL. Is this the first time that he had ever walked ahead of
you?

Mr. FRAZIER. Yes sir; he did.

Mr. BALL. You say he had the package under his arm when you saw
him?

Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. You mean one end of it under the armpit?

Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; he had it up just like you stick it right
under your arm like that.

Mr. BALL. And he had the lower part --

Mr. FRAZIER. The other part with his right hand.

Mr. BALL. Right hand?

Mr. FRAZIER. Right.

Mr. BALL. He carried it then parallel to his body?

Mr. FRAZIER. Right, Straight up and down.

Representative FORD. Under his right arm?

Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did it look to you as if there was something heavy in
the package?

Mr. FRAZIER. Well, I will be frank with you, I didn't pay much
attention to the package because like I say before and after he
told me that it was curtain rods and I didn't pay any attention
to it, and he never had lied to me before so I never did have any
reason to doubt his word.

Mr. BALL. Did it appear to you there was some, more than just
paper he vas carrying, some kind of a weight he was carrying?

Mr. FRAZIER. Well, yes, sir; I say, because one reason I know
that because I worked in a department store before and I had
uncrated curtain rods when they come in, and I know if you have
seen when they come straight from the factory you know how they
can bundle them up and put them in there pretty compact, so he
told me it was curtain rods so I didn't think any more about the
package whatsoever.

Mr. BALL. Well, from the way he carried it, the way he walked did
it appear he was carrying something that had more than the weight
of a paper?

Mr. FRAZIER. Well, I say, you know like I say, I didn't pay much
attention to the package other than I knew he had it under his
arm and I didn't pay too much attention the way he was walking
because I was walking along there looking at the railroad cars
and watching the men on the diesel switch them cars and I didn't
pay too much attention on how he carried the package at all"

And that, Mr. Syd, is how to post facts without misrepresentation or plagiarizing a one-sided conspiracy theorist.
Profwag out.
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Re: JFK 50TH Anniversary

Postby SydneyPSIder » 23 May 2014, 14:41

So from your hand to your armpit is not around 18"? The stock of a gun would be pretty noticeable due to its bulk, surely? Where does that witness say anything that suggests the item could have possibly been a broken down gun? Even a piece of crap like the Carcano?

Then there is no mention of the fact that they were wrapped in dept store paper and there was no grease or anything showing through as would happen with a well-oiled broken down gun -- which would be bulkier than the parcel the witness is talking about here to boot.

So I think any 'reasonable person' would consider that the parcel could not be a gun on the evidence.

Further, LHO's fingerprints by rights should have been all over said gun if it existed in his possession that day, when in fact a single palm print was found belatedly, several days later, which was apparently planted, possibly from his dead body. Remember this is a gun that an independent armourer said was rusted out, had a defective firing pin and a misaligned scope. More evidence that Profwag selectively chooses to ignore. There has been a flight of reason here, as 'One eye' Profwag strikes again.

As noted, the guy is live on video with his account in one of the episodes pasted above recounting again what it appeared to be.

Further, even if LHO did smuggle his crap gun into the TSBD under orders from his handlers, at any time, it certainly doesn't prove he even fired it or was on that floor at the time of the assassination. It's still quite possible a professional assassin or assassins using a mix of regular and frangible bullets actually took the shots. The aim being to frame LHO as a patsy throughout.
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Re: JFK 50TH Anniversary

Postby SydneyPSIder » 23 May 2014, 17:23

Now we come to the “single bullet theory,” otherwise known as the “magic bullet theory.” Three brass casings were found in the 6th floor “sniper’s nest,” and witnesses heard three shots, (did they?) so the official explanation had to revolve around three bullets. What nobody expected back in 1963, before camera phones, was that someone would actually have a video of the shooting. Turns out, this guy Zapruder was filming the motorcade just as the shots range out, so the official story had to match both the eyewitness accounts, and the Zapruder film. Without us drilling into the details that you can research yourself online very easily, the time in the car that both the President and Governor Connolly reacted physically to the gunfire was under six seconds.

Three aimed shots are not probable in a Carcano within six seconds, so the Warren Commission concluded that the damage done to the car occupants had to be from the impacts of only two bullets. The first shot, they reported, missed, though no damage to the car, or divot in the ground, was ever found according to the official record. Of the two remaining, quickly fired bullets, one for sure hit the President’s head. The other bullet, they claimed, hit the President at the top of his back, exited his throat, entered Governor Connolly’s back, exited his chest, entered his wrist, exited his wrist, and lodged in his thigh. (???) The bullet was later found by an orderly on the gurney upon which Governor Connolly was transported in the hospital. (??????) The 160gr. full metal jacket bullet was intact, showing almost no damage to the nose, and only minimal damage to the base. It weighed 158 of its original 160 grains.

This one bullet, known as CE399, is said to have gone through 15 layers of clothing, a necktie knot, 7 layers of skin, and 15 inches of tissue, shattering 4 inches of rib and a wrist bone. Do you think that is possible?
Truth can of course be stranger than fiction, and everyone from the Discovery Channel to debunker bloggers have tried to prove and disprove the possibility of the magic bullet for two generations now, and if you Google around, there are interesting theories on both sides of the issue. One interesting detail is that same Warren Commission also found that the third bullet, the headshot, disintegrated entirely after going through two layers of skull, which is significantly thinner than a rib. Not everyone on the Warren Commission agreed with the magic bullet theory. There were three dissenters on the Commission, but with all the flak that “conspiracy theorists” get about the shooting, when you boil it right down, the explanation itself was just a theory, and a far-flung one that that.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/lee-har ... -it-today/
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Re: JFK 50TH Anniversary

Postby ProfWag » 24 May 2014, 21:25

SydneyPSIder wrote:So from your hand to your armpit is not around 18"? The stock of a gun would be pretty noticeable due to its bulk, surely? Where does that witness say anything that suggests the item could have possibly been a broken down gun? Even a piece of crap like the Carcano?

Then there is no mention of the fact that they were wrapped in dept store paper and there was no grease or anything showing through as would happen with a well-oiled broken down gun -- which would be bulkier than the parcel the witness is talking about here to boot.

So I think any 'reasonable person' would consider that the parcel could not be a gun on the evidence.
.
Then let me ask this another way. Where are the "curtain rods?" He was seen going into the building with the bag still under his arm. Why would he be taking "curtain rods" into the TSBD anyway? Mrs. Paine had curtain rods in her garage that LHO supposedly went to pick up, yet they were still there after the assassination. LHO's room didn't have windows so why would he be taking "curtain rods" into the TSBD anyway? Finally, LHO claimed after his arrest that he did not carry a long bag into the TSBD that day and the only thing he brought with him was his lunch. So, who lied? Since you're unable to think on your own Syd, how do the conspiracy theorists explain this?
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Re: JFK 50TH Anniversary

Postby ProfWag » 24 May 2014, 22:16

SydneyPSIder wrote:Three aimed shots are not probable in a Carcano within six seconds, so the Warren Commission concluded that the damage done to the car occupants had to be from the impacts of only two bullets.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Who said they needed to be within 6 seconds? Try more like 9 seconds from first to third bullet. Please Syd, don't misrepresent the facts.
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Re: JFK 50TH Anniversary

Postby ProfWag » 24 May 2014, 22:20

SydneyPSIder wrote: The first shot, they reported, missed, though no damage to the car, or divot in the ground, was ever found according to the official record.

Actually, evidence for the first bullet was found. There is a bullet-sized hole in a street light directly below the 6th floor that could very plausibly deflected the shot and a fragment of cement from a bullet likely hit Mr. Tague in the cheek.
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Re: JFK 50TH Anniversary

Postby ProfWag » 24 May 2014, 22:49

SydneyPSIder wrote:
This one bullet, known as CE399, is said to have gone through 15 layers of clothing, a necktie knot, 7 layers of skin, and 15 inches of tissue, shattering 4 inches of rib and a wrist bone. Do you think that is possible?[/b][/size] y/

Absolutely that is possible! Forensics have PROVEN that it is not only possible, but probable.
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