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Was the Titanic sinking a conspiracy? Suspicious questions

Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.

Was the Titanic sinking a conspiracy? Suspicious questions

Postby Scepcop » 05 Feb 2013, 02:21

I've never understood something about the sinking of the Titanic.

How can ice possibly cut through a thick metal hull? Isn't that theoretically impossible? Has ice tearing through metal ever been replicated under scientific testing conditions?

And isn't this unprecedented in that it's never happened to a ship before, even to ships made of wood?

Theoretically, the most damage ice can do to metal is put a dent in it. But tearing through it like a knife through butter or scissors through cloth? That seems too implausible and suspicious doesn't it?

Try ramming a metal wall with a big block of ice and see what happens. At best you may dent it, but tear through it like cloth? Highly unlikely. Even if you drive a car and scrape it against ice, you may dent or bend the metal of your car's exterior, but the ice should not cut through it like a knife.

Here is something interesting by the way:

http://www.gettysburgghosts.net/titan.htm

In April 14, 1912, the huge "unsinkable" ship the Titanic was steaming across the Atlantic towards New York. This was the Titanic's maiden voyage, and her captain was encouraged to break the record for speed while making the voyage. As most people know, after striking an iceberg, the unsinkable ship went down in only a matter of hours. Out of the 2,201 passengers, only 711 were saved. Since then, there have been many books and movies about the Titanic.

There was one fictional story written by a merchant seaman by the name of Morgan Robertson. Robertson's book was about an unsinkable passenger liner that sank while carrying the elite people of the time. The ship in Robertson's story was called the Titan and the book was titled The Wreck of the Titan. Even though the book is fictitious, the events in the story parallel the events of the Titanic. Both ships were built to be unsinkable. Both ships sank after striking an iceberg. Both ships were on their maiden voyage. The most well to do famous people were on the Titan and Titanic. Only one third of the passengers on each ship survived. Both ships had an inadequate number of lifeboats. Both ships were encouraged to break speed records during their voyage.

Robertson's book The Wreck of the Titan was never published. Each time it was rejected by editor's, they told him the same thing. The story was unbelievable. Surely the events he wrote of could not possibly happen to an unsinkable ship.

The book, The Wreck of the Titan was written in 1898, fourteen years before the Titanic hit an iceberg and settled on the bottom of the northern Atlantic.


Image

http://www.cracked.com/article_18421_6- ... pened.html

#5. Morgan Robertson Writes About the Titanic... 14 Years Early

A hundred years before James Cameron turned douchebaggery into an art form at the Oscars, American author Morgan Robertson wrote a shitty book called Futility, or the Wreck of the Titan, about the sinking of an "unsinkable" ocean liner. When you see the cover, you figure you're pretty clearly looking at a fictionalized version of the Titanic story.

No surprise there; it's a story that's been told over and over (there were 13 Titanic movies before Cameron's, including one by the Nazis) but Robertson's book was first.

Where it Gets Weird:

He was so eager to be first, apparently, that he didn't bother to wait for the Titanic to actually sink before writing about it. The Wreck of the Titan was published in 1898, 14 years before RMS Titanic was even finished being [cheaply] built.

The similarities between Robertson's work and the Titanic disaster are so astounding that one has to imagine if White Star Line built Titanic to Robertson's specs as a dare. The Titan was described as "the largest craft afloat and the greatest of the works of men," "equal to that of a first class hotel," and, of course, "unsinkable".

Both ships were British-owned steel vessels, both around 800 feet long and sank after hitting an iceberg in the North Atlantic, in April, "around midnight." Sound like enough to keep you up at night? Maybe that's why Robertson republished the book in 1912 just in case enough people didn't know that he wrote it.

Where it Gets Even Weirder:

While the novel does bear some curious coincidences with the Titanic disaster, there are quite a few things that Robertson got flat wrong. For one, the Titanic did not crash into an iceberg "400 miles from Newfoundland" at 25 knots. It crashed into an iceberg 400 miles from Newfoundland at 22.5 knots.

Wait, what the blank? That's one hell of a lucky guess!

But maybe the weirdest thing about Titan were points that had nothing to do with the story, but check out after numerous inquires and expeditions to the Titanic wreck site.

For one, both the Titan and the Titanic had too few lifeboats to accommodate every passenger on board; the Titan carrying "as few as the law allowed." While Robertson decided to be generous and include four lifeboats more on his ship than Titanic, it's an odd point to bring up when you consider that lifeboats had nothing to do with the blank story. When Titan hit the iceberg (starboard bow, naturally), the ship sank immediately, making the point made about lifeboats inconsequential. Why the blank mention this?!

It'd be like HAL 9000 addressing the danger posed by O-rings at low temperature decades before the Challenger disaster.
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Re: Titanic sinking - I've never understood something

Postby Arouet » 05 Feb 2013, 04:11

What makes you think that a ship never sunk by hitting an iceberg before the Titanic?

Do you have any idea how hard and heavy an iceberg is? Do you know how much pressure such a ship would have to take before cracking? What makes you think it should be physically impossible?
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Re: Titanic sinking - I've never understood something

Postby Scepcop » 05 Feb 2013, 04:25

Arouet wrote:What makes you think that a ship never sunk by hitting an iceberg before the Titanic?

Do you have any idea how hard and heavy an iceberg is? Do you know how much pressure such a ship would have to take before cracking? What makes you think it should be physically impossible?


Can you cite an instance when a ship sank from an iceberg? Even ships made of wood don't sink from hitting an iceberg.

It doesn't matter how big it is, ice should not tear through metal. Try testing it yourself. Something seems suspicious here.

Why do you suck at critical thinking?
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Re: Titanic sinking - Conspiracy? Suspicious questions

Postby Scepcop » 05 Feb 2013, 04:27

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=af07

Titanic Conspiracy - Experiment with models



A conspiracy theory about how three powerful wealthy men who opposed the Federal Reserve Act were killed off in the Titanic:

http://www.world-mysteries.com/doug_titanic1.htm

Wow so maybe both conspiracies are true? They switched Titanic with Olympic for the insurance scam, and then killed off those three men who opposed the Federal Reserve Act as well, thus killing two birds with one stone? If so, then it was a brilliant crime. Beautifully executed.
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Re: Titanic sinking - I've never understood something

Postby Arouet » 05 Feb 2013, 04:39

Scepcop wrote:Can you cite an instance when a ship sank from an iceberg? Even ships made of wood don't sink from hitting an iceberg.


Do you do even the smallest amount of research on these things? This took me all of two seconds on google. First link with search terms: ships hitting icebergs

http://researchers.imd.nrc.ca/~hillb/ic ... 2_01e.html

It doesn't matter how big it is, ice should not tear through metal. Try testing it yourself. Something seems suspicious here.


I honestly don't even know how to respond to this without sounding condescending. You realise that an iceberg is a lot bigger than an ice cube, right? I mean, a lot lot bigger! And they are heavier than icecubes. A lot lot heavier. With jagged edges. A ship, moving quickly through water will sustain a pretty large force upon smashing into an iceberg.

Why do you suck at critical thinking?


Given how you've approached this question, I think you have to ask yourself what you mean by critical thinking. What critical questions did you ask yourself?
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Re: Titanic sinking - Conspiracy? Suspicious questions

Postby really? » 05 Feb 2013, 12:02

I'd like to add do too thousands of years of compression, glacial ice is much harder than ice from the freezer.
How hard is iceberg ice?

The crushing strength of ice is around 1% that of steel or 10% that of concrete. Though this may not sound very hard, a ship collision with an iceberg would almost certainly end in disaster. The enormous momentum involved and potentially huge contact area with the ice can generate hundreds of tons of force on the hull which would cause it to dent and crumple.
http://www.icebergfinder.com/iceberg-gu ... q.aspx#a20

I wonder from where Winston has been pulling these recent posts from ?

Winston: Why do you suck at critical thinking?

This is a question he must ask of himself.
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Re: Titanic sinking - Conspiracy? Suspicious questions

Postby Arouet » 05 Feb 2013, 20:02

My prediction: Scepcop never returns to this thread again. Or if he does - doesn't address the above two posts.
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Re: Titanic sinking - Conspiracy? Suspicious questions

Postby SydneyPSIder » 05 Feb 2013, 20:21

lol, what happened to our primary mission to 'Evaluate PseudoSkeptical Criticism of the Paranormal'
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Re: Titanic sinking - Conspiracy? Suspicious questions

Postby Scepcop » 08 Feb 2013, 22:16

Ok Arouet, but those are just words. I'd like to see a replicated scientific test of ice crashing through a metal hull. I'll bet you can't find one.

And isn't it odd how the Titanic suddenly split in half like that? How can a sturdy unsinkable ship just break in half like that? Why so much damage and destruction just for scraping ice?

More weird stuff about the Titanic:

http://www.titanicuniverse.com/the-titanic-conspiracy

http://www.the-titanic.com/Titanic-Toda ... Stuff.aspx

http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazi ... tanic.html

Here's a thought:

Perhaps the Illuminati need to do a major sacrifice ritual event every 30 years, to appease their deities or balance out some energy on the Earth, while inducing terror into the masses? Consider this:

1912 - Titanic sinking (Note: The Titanic was built in 1911, so there is "911" in that year too, how eerie)

1941 - Pearl Harbor

1970's - Vietnam War

2001 - 9/11

See the pattern? Every 30 years, there seems to be some kind of big sacrifice event. Is this a coincidence or a pattern? What do you think?
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Titanic sinking - Conspiracy? Suspicious questions

Postby Arouet » 08 Feb 2013, 23:01

Scepcop wrote:Ok Arouet, but those are just words. I'd like to see a replicated scientific test of ice crashing through a metal hull. I'll bet you can't find one.


What??? I posted a list of ships that have crashed into icebergs - many which sank!

You don't need a scientific test involving real ships and real icebergs (whoever would spend the money to perform such an experiment? It would cost billions of dollars!). All you need is basic physics!
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Re: Titanic sinking - Conspiracy? Suspicious questions

Postby really? » 08 Feb 2013, 23:55

Scepcop wrote:Ok Arouet, but those are just words. I'd like to see a replicated scientific test of ice crashing through a metal hull. I'll bet you can't find one.

And isn't it odd how the Titanic suddenly split in half like that? How can a sturdy unsinkable ship just break in half like that? Why so much damage and destruction just for scraping ice?

More weird stuff about the Titanic:

http://www.titanicuniverse.com/the-titanic-conspiracy

http://www.the-titanic.com/Titanic-Toda ... Stuff.aspx

http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazi ... tanic.html

Here's a thought:

Perhaps the Illuminati need to do a major sacrifice ritual event every 30 years, to appease their deities or balance out some energy on the Earth, while inducing terror into the masses? Consider this:

1912 - Titanic sinking (Note: The Titanic was built in 1911, so there is "911" in that year too, how eerie)

1941 - Pearl Harbor

1970's - Vietnam War

2001 - 9/11

See the pattern? Every 30 years, there seems to be some kind of big sacrifice event. Is this a coincidence or a pattern? What do you think?


No ship is unsinkable.
You are playing connect the dots where none exist. Let be put it this way. You are demonstrating in spades cognitive bias and confirmation bias. There are many more remarkable events taking place in the 20th century that you have omitted in favor of your pet ideology. Such as the Texas City disaster of 1947. Which killed thousands just 5 years after Pearl Harbor. You've forgot the "forgotten war" which happened between WW II and Vietnam. You also missed WW I which started 5 years after the Titanic sunk. You've forgotten the Great Depression. The assassinations of President Kennedy, Martin Luther King. The Watts riots also happen in the 60's. Los Angeles riots of 1992. The first bombing of the Twin towers in 1993.
You see Winston events happen in an random unpredictable time frames
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Re: Titanic sinking - Conspiracy? Suspicious questions

Postby Scepcop » 09 Feb 2013, 19:14

I don't know if the Titanic was a conspiracy or not. But there are many suspicious things about it:

- Why did the captain of the Titanic order the ship to move at full speed through the waters at night with no visibility? Other ships in the area all slowed down, including the Californian. The captain was the most experienced and knew those waters very well too. Yet he acted against all logic.

- Why did the Californian not rescue the Titanic even though it was nearby? It was close enough to see its rocket flares fire, yet it left. Why did the Californian have no cargo or passengers, only sweaters and blankets? It was as if it was tagging along the Titanic to serve as a rescue ship, but something went wrong with the plan, or it was called off.

- Why was the Titanic story written about 14 years prior in 1898 and in various other articles as well? The word "Titan" was used for the ship in the story and it also sank 400 miles off Newfoundland, which happened in real life as well. Did the writer have a premonition, or did the conspirators borrow their idea from the book?

- How can ice break through metal? Isn't that physically impossible? How did it tear through five compartments so easily?

- How can the ship suddenly break apart while sinking? How can an unsinkable ship just break apart?

- Why did they call the Titanic "unsinkable"? No ship has been called that before. It seems as though they were setting it up to take a bigger fall by calling it "unsinkable".

- How come three powerful men who opposed the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 just happened to die on the Titanic?

- Why did JP Morgan, the billionaire tycoon who owned the Titanic, suddenly cancel his voyage on the Titanic? Why would he do that unless he knew something or was warned? If it was just an accident, then how could he know anything or be warned about it?

- How come the Titanic's sister ship, the Olympic, just happened to suffer a big collision with the HMS Hawke the year before the Titanic disaster, rendering it damaged beyond repair, yet somehow it operated for many years afterward without a hitch? Could the Olympic and Titanic have been switched in a big insurance fraud scheme, since the Olympic was reportedly beyond repair and unable to qualify for insurance compensation?

Doesn't any of this raise an eyebrow? Aren't they suspicious?
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Re: Titanic sinking - Conspiracy? Suspicious questions

Postby Scepcop » 09 Feb 2013, 19:19

Arouet wrote:
Scepcop wrote:Ok Arouet, but those are just words. I'd like to see a replicated scientific test of ice crashing through a metal hull. I'll bet you can't find one.


What??? I posted a list of ships that have crashed into icebergs - many which sank!

You don't need a scientific test involving real ships and real icebergs (whoever would spend the money to perform such an experiment? It would cost billions of dollars!). All you need is basic physics!


Why can't they replicate it with miniature models?

really wrote:No ship is unsinkable.
You are playing connect the dots where none exist. Let be put it this way. You are demonstrating in spades cognitive bias and confirmation bias. There are many more remarkable events taking place in the 20th century that you have omitted in favor of your pet ideology. Such as the Texas City disaster of 1947. Which killed thousands just 5 years after Pearl Harbor. You've forgot the "forgotten war" which happened between WW II and Vietnam. You also missed WW I which started 5 years after the Titanic sunk. You've forgotten the Great Depression. The assassinations of President Kennedy, Martin Luther King. The Watts riots also happen in the 60's. Los Angeles riots of 1992. The first bombing of the Twin towers in 1993.
You see Winston events happen in an random unpredictable time frames


So you are a coincidence theorist? lol. How do you know they are all coincidences? That's disinfo propaganda. Who do you work for?

FDR said that nothing happens by coincidence. It is all calculated behind the scenes.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Titanic sinking - Conspiracy? Suspicious questions

Postby Arouet » 09 Feb 2013, 19:37

Scepcop wrote:Why can't they replicate it with miniature models?


I don't know if they can or not- but let me ask you: where did you come up with this hypothesis? Is it your brainstorming? Have you looked at all into the physics of it? Why don't you post on a physics forum, and ask? You don't even need to say it's the titanic, just describe the situation.
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Re: Titanic sinking - Conspiracy? Suspicious questions

Postby Scepcop » 10 Feb 2013, 21:27

Check out these documentaries I found on the Titanic conspiracy. They are very interesting and present compelling points.



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