View Active Topics          Latest 100 Topics          View Your Posts          Switch to Mobile

Is the world freer now than it ever was? Consider this...

Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.

Is the world freer now than it ever was? Consider this...

Postby Scepcop » 15 Jun 2012, 03:05

Ok I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment. Tell me what you think.

Two intellectuals I talked to, a German guy and Darryl Sloan (a public freethinker with a popular YouTube channel at http://www.youtube.com/darrylsloan), told me that they don't believe all this NWO/Illuminati conspiracy stuff on the internet, because "there's never been a better time to be a freethinker than now." Here is the gist of what they said:

"We have more freedom than ever today, esp in the Western world. You can watch and listen to anything you want, believe anything you want, be an Atheist even, etc. and not be arrested for it. Look at you Winston, following all that conspiracy stuff, yet no police or government ever bothers you, harasses you or threatens you. And information is flowing freely all over the internet, more than ever before. 500 years ago, if you didn't believe in God, they'd execute you. But nowadays, you can believe anything you want, and no one harasses you for it. There's never been a greater time to be a freethinker than now.

Also, as a Westerner, you can go to any country you want, as long as you have the money. In ancient times, travel was a lot slower and more tedious and risky. And borders were not open either. But now, planes, trains, buses and vehicles have made travel and transportation easy and convenient. There's never been a better time for international travel than now."


I guess this does make sense. No matter how much conspiracy stuff you follow or get into or attend, no authority ever threatens or harasses you. They simply ignore you. I've never had any trouble from government or police. And as a Westerner, there is no government or police stopping you from going wherever you want, to whatever country you want.

So does that mean all the NWO/Illuminati conspiracy theories about a one world government capturing the world are just paranoia, fantasy and exaggeration?

This brings to mind an interesting quote I found before:

“The reason people find it so hard to be happy is that they always see the past better than it was, the present worse than it is, and the future less resolved than it will be.” - Marcel Pagnol quotes (French Writer, Producer and Film Director, 1895-1974)

This seems so true doesn't it? At any point in history people always seem to reminisce the past as better than it really was (e.g. "the good old days") and make the present out to be worse than it really is, while seeing a bleak future ahead. The media makes it worse by showing you negative news and airing pessimistic views all the time too. I mean, you could pick up a newspaper from 1985 or 1975 and look at the stories in it and it wouldn't be much different than today - it would be filled with news of struggles, economic problems, unemployment, complaints, crimes, wars, anxieties, uncertainty about the future, unstable foreign countries, threatening dictators, etc. So our attitude and negative/pessimistic views don't seem any different long ago as compared to today.

Here's a case in point: For as long as I can remember, the news has been portraying America as having high unemployment and not enough jobs. It's an issue in every Presidential election campaign, and news programs always talk about it as if it's a major problem to worry about. However, if you look in the newspaper classifieds or your local job bulletin board, you will always see many job openings in the help wanted section, of all types. And every time I have gone down to the local employment temp agency, they'd have work for me. So WTF?

Even today, with everyone saying that there are no more good jobs left in America, still, you can open any help wanted section in the paper, and see plenty of job openings to apply for, of all types in every category. Even more, many websites on the internet list countless thousands of job openings in every country, including America, all the time everyday. So why is there this constant talk of rising unemployment and no jobs left? WTF? Am I missing something here? (confused look)

The biggest difference between the past and present is that technology has made our life more convenient and efficient, consumerism has gone out of proportion, and family values have eroded with the rise of more materialism. But hey, 20 or 30 years ago, people were complaining about the same things, by the standards of that time as well. The mentality has always been the same, "the present has many problems, the future looks bleak, and things were better in the past."

Sure there is corruption, lies, cover ups, and conspiracies. And the US government has turned into a total a-hole after 9/11 and become a war mongering control freak and exploited others. But what's new? The US government and politicians have never been "goody two shoes" anyway. That's a myth, based on the tendency of remembering the past as better than it was. The truth is, the US government has always been a warmongerer, exploiter and a-hole. In the 1800's, they killed many Indians and Mexicans, stole their land, and broke promises and agreements. They stole Hawaii from the Hawaiians, enslaved other countries, engaged in corruption, etc. So what's new? People with power have always abused it and done evil things - lies, murder, crime, corruption, exploitation, you name it. This has been true all throughout history. How is it any different today?

So think about all that. Could we all be deluded with paranoia, pessimism, negativity in our minds, which makes us exaggerate the present state of affairs as worse than it really is, at least in the Western world?

Look at your life. The police don't bother you unless you've committed a real crime. The government ignores you. Heck you couldn't get the government's attention even if you tried - it simply doesn't have time to waste on you, unless you've committed a real crime. And no one is trying to arrest you for saying what's on your mind or believing what you do. So aren't you a lot better off than people who were arrested, persecuted or executed in the past for believing forbidden things? If so, why then do you see the current world as a terrible place with a bleak future? Look all around you: Food is everywhere. Conveniences are everywhere. Vehicles and aircraft are there to take you anywhere in the world. Sure there are problems, just as there have always been, and life is a struggle, just as it has always been. But as long as you have adequate food and shelter, you are well off, better than 3/4 of the world. So why is your mindset so negative, paranoid, and pessimistic? You gotta wonder...

Does all this make sense? I know I'm playing devil's advocate here. But the above points are logical and true, at least in your everyday life, aren't they?

Suggestions:

Instead of trying to change or awaken the world, why don't you try to teach people to think for themselves and make better choices in their life, so they can have more freedom, happiness, peace of mind, and less stress? Teach and encourage others to be more spiritual and eliminate unnecessary junk from their lives. That's how you can really help others, rather than telling them about some "boogeyman in the shadows" or grand conspiracy and dystopia to worry about in the future which they can't do anything about even if true. That's all we can really do, is to take control over our own lives and our own minds, which are the only things we truly have sovereignty over.

Of course, we are all slaves to money, just as we have always been ever since the barter system was replaced with money. However, consider this: No one is making you buy that expensive house or car. No one is making you take that stressful job to make ends meet. No one is making you accrue debt. Of course, our materialistic culture attempts to condition you to do those things. But you can always choose not to accept this conditioning by exercising your free will. Instead, you can make wise choices to live simply, and more spiritually, with less expenses and little or no debt. You can make smarter decisions that will lead to LESS financial burdens and thus become LESS enslaved to money. No one is forcing you not to.

Another sensible option is to live overseas in countries where the cost of living is a fraction of what it is in the Western world. Although this is a taboo option that may appear unpatriotic, in reality there are already millions of Americans living happily overseas with a lower cost of living and less financial burdens. Living outside of the Western world may sound extreme and unconventional, but it works for many. It's just that you never hear anything positive about it in the mainstream media, which isn't surprising anyway since the media feeds on negativity and are out to portray everything in the worst possible light. Therefore, they are the worst source available for info on life and the world.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
User avatar
Scepcop
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: 16 May 2009, 07:29






Re: Is the world freer now than it ever was? Consider this..

Postby ProfWag » 15 Jun 2012, 21:54

Scepcop wrote:Suggestion:

Instead of trying to change or awaken the world, why don't you try to teach people to think for themselves and make better choices in their life, so they can have more freedom, happiness, peace of mind, and less stress? Teach and encourage others to be more spiritual and eliminate unnecessary junk from their lives. That's how you can really help others, rather than telling them about some "boogeyman in the shadows" or grand conspiracy and dystopia to worry about in the future which they can't do anything about even if true. That's all we can really do, is to take control over our own lives and our own minds, which are the only things we truly have sovereignty over.

Winston, this is what I've been trying to get you to do and understand since I joined the forum.
User avatar
ProfWag
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 03:54

Re: Is the world freer now than it ever was? Consider this..

Postby Scepcop » 16 Jun 2012, 10:02

Since I'm coming in late to this party, I'll start here-

SCEPCOP wrote:Keep in mind though, just because there is no NWO/Illuminati conspiracy (which we can't rule out completely either) doesn't mean that there aren't conspiracies.

con·spir·a·cy
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.


By definition, there can be never ending conspiracies of every kind. So yes, they do exist.

As SCEPCOP points out, we can't rule out that a NWO/Illuminati doesn't/does exist either but the theories related to them are nothing more than a person or groups ideas. Hence the definition of conspiracy theory. Just because some guy decides that a group of people exists, doesn't make it a fact.

SCEPCOP wrote:It doesn't mean that there is no shadow government. It doesn't mean that the official version of every event presented by the government/media is the only valid truth there is. (Is that what you believe?)

Agree. The sad part is that a good portion of US Citizens know very little about the US Government. Something as simple as understanding that the USA is a republic and not a democracy tends to confuse too many Americans.

Naturalized citizens may well have a better understanding of the US form of Government than those born here. They have to read the book and take a test, we have to pull two years of US history in high school and pass to graduate but there's no fear of deportation if we get it wrong.

SCEPCOP wrote:So you see, conspiracies aren't black and white. You can't say that they are all false or all true. It's not that simple. You got to take each claim or event and evaluate the evidence pertaining to it. Don't you agree?[/quote"]

Agree

SCEPCOP wrote:Besides, at elite levels of government, banking and secret societies, how do you know what's going on? How do you know what they are plotting? How can you say that they are plotting nothing and that there are no secrets? You can't really know that, can you?


We don't know what's going on in our own neighbor's house, let alone organizations and groups.

SCEPCOP wrote:How do you know that Alex Jones isn't a plant put there to discredit the conspiracy movement? He overacts on every little point, as though he's trying hard to look like a nut case.


How do we know that he's just not a garden variety nut case? The level of attention you give to a person's claims, provides fuel to their fire. It doesn't take much to get that person's claims out to the masses and then they have a following. The claim takes on a life of it's own and grows. The bigger it gets, the more people who start to think that there must be something to what this guy is saying because that many people can't be wrong.

SCEPCOP wrote:David Icke says wonderful things. But he is so smooth and polished, as though every point he makes is rehearsed and practiced. Furthermore, how could a man with arthritis in one hand type up a 700 page book every few years? That doesn't add up, and no one on his forum can explain it. Is someone else writing his books? Is he sitting on a couch dictating while a transcriber takes down everything he says? If so, why does no one know about it? How does he get away with speaking on world tours?

How do you know these folks aren't leading you into another direction out of the way?

How do you know you aren't being manipulated?

If you think that you are being manipulated, you probably are. Listen to your gut, evaluate all the information and form a personal opinion of all the facts.

SCEPCOP wrote:Have you heard of Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World"? There are even two films about it (which are available on YouTube). How do you know we aren't headed in that direction? We can't really know what's being planned for us can we?


You won't find me drinking any Kool-Aid in this lifetime. I'm not into keeping up with the Joneses and I don't have a bumper sticker that says, "Whoever dies with the most toys wins". I will volunteer my time for a political candidate if I agree with their ideas and I won't vote if I have to pick the lesser of two evils because that's all I have to choose from. I guess I tend to have what many would consider to be an abnormal attitude toward life and I don't particularly give a rat's patootie that I do. But hey, that's just me.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
User avatar
Scepcop
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: 16 May 2009, 07:29

Re: Is the world freer now than it ever was? Consider this..

Postby Scepcop » 17 Jun 2012, 18:05

One more thing to add to my article:

Of course, we are all slaves to money, just as we have always been ever since the barter system was replaced with money. However, consider this: No one is making you buy that expensive house or car. No one is making you take that stressful job to make ends meet. No one is making you accrue debt. Of course, our materialistic culture attempts to condition you to do those things. But you can always choose not to accept this conditioning by exercising your free will. Instead, you can make wise choices to live simply, and more spiritually, with less expenses and little or no debt. You can make smarter decisions that will lead to LESS financial burdens and thus become LESS enslaved to money. No one is forcing you not to.

Another sensible option is to live overseas in countries where the cost of living is a fraction of what it is in the Western world. Although this is a taboo option that may appear unpatriotic, in reality there are already millions of Americans living happily overseas with a lower cost of living and less financial burdens. Living outside of the Western world may sound extreme and unconventional, but it works for many. It's just that you never hear anything positive about it in the mainstream media, which isn't surprising anyway since the media feeds on negativity and are out to portray everything in the worst possible light. Therefore, they are the worst source available for info on life and the world.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
User avatar
Scepcop
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: 16 May 2009, 07:29

Re: Is the world freer now than it ever was? Consider this..

Postby ProfWag » 18 Jun 2012, 20:58

I never said there weren't any conspiracies out there as there are. Lots of 'em. However, it just seems that some people dwell on their possibilities a little too much. As you said in the opening post: "That's how you can really help others, rather than telling them about some "boogeyman in the shadows" or grand conspiracy and dystopia to worry about in the future which they can't do anything about even if true."
User avatar
ProfWag
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 03:54

Re: Is the world freer now than it ever was? Consider this..

Postby Scepcop » 20 Jun 2012, 19:08

I think one of the reasons for the popularity of conspiracy theories and doom and gloom dystopia predictions is our natural inclination toward the negative.

Why are people naturally inclined toward the negative?

Have you noticed that it's too easy to become fixated on the negative or become addicted to it and feed off it? Yet one has to work hard to stay positive? Why is that?

Why is human nature and our minds naturally fixated on sliding down into negativity? Why not the other way? Is there a reason for that?

Consider this: If you do 9 good things and 1 bad thing, people will remember the bad thing and forget the good things you did. That's human nature. Also, if someone spreads a negative lie about you, people will be quick to believe it, even without any evidence, as though they were eager to believe the worst about you. Why is that?

And of course, the news media feeds off our negativity. They constantly bombard us with the most negative stories that make us see the world in the most negative way - full of stress, conflict and tragedy - never showing us all the good decent people around us. The media always wants to portray everything in the worst possible light it seems.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
User avatar
Scepcop
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: 16 May 2009, 07:29

Re: Is the world freer now than it ever was? Consider this..

Postby NinjaPuppy » 20 Jun 2012, 19:45

Scepcop wrote:I think one of the reasons for the popularity of conspiracy theories and doom and gloom dystopia predictions is our natural inclination toward the negative.

Why are people naturally inclined toward the negative?

I think this is an individual thing.

Scepcop wrote:Have you noticed that it's too easy to become fixated on the negative or become addicted to it and feed off it? Yet one has to work hard to stay positive? Why is that?

I'll take a wild arse guess and say that some of it is fear based.

Scepcop wrote:Why is human nature and our minds naturally fixated on sliding down into negativity? Why not the other way? Is there a reason for that?

Consider this: If you do 9 good things and 1 bad thing, people will remember the bad thing and forget the good things you did. That's human nature. Also, if someone spreads a negative lie about you, people will be quick to believe it, even without any evidence, as though they were eager to believe the worst about you. Why is that?

And of course, the news media feeds off our negativity. They constantly bombard us with the most negative stories that make us see the world in the most negative way - full of stress, conflict and tragedy - never showing us all the good decent people around us. The media always wants to portray everything in the worst possible light it seems.


I think that you answered your own question with your comment about the media. We are bombarded with negative news 24/7. If it's not negative enough, they will make it seem worse with speculation. Bad news sells. Good news... not so much. As to why, we as a society are drawn to this negative side, I don't know. I do feel that we've become desensitised to things that would have been considered gross a few decades ago. So many TV shows have gotten extremely
visually graphic and detailed when it comes to things (autopsy, wounds, accurate medical situations, etc.) that many of us would probably never see in real life. What was once taboo is now entertainment.
User avatar
NinjaPuppy
 
Posts: 4002
Joined: 28 Jul 2009, 20:44

Re: Is the world freer now than it ever was? Consider this..

Postby Scepcop » 15 Jul 2012, 12:11

Scepcop wrote:Since I'm coming in late to this party, I'll start here-

SCEPCOP wrote:Keep in mind though, just because there is no NWO/Illuminati conspiracy (which we can't rule out completely either) doesn't mean that there aren't conspiracies.

con·spir·a·cy
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.


By definition, there can be never ending conspiracies of every kind. So yes, they do exist.

As SCEPCOP points out, we can't rule out that a NWO/Illuminati doesn't/does exist either but the theories related to them are nothing more than a person or groups ideas. Hence the definition of conspiracy theory. Just because some guy decides that a group of people exists, doesn't make it a fact.

SCEPCOP wrote:It doesn't mean that there is no shadow government. It doesn't mean that the official version of every event presented by the government/media is the only valid truth there is. (Is that what you believe?)

Agree. The sad part is that a good portion of US Citizens know very little about the US Government. Something as simple as understanding that the USA is a republic and not a democracy tends to confuse too many Americans.

Naturalized citizens may well have a better understanding of the US form of Government than those born here. They have to read the book and take a test, we have to pull two years of US history in high school and pass to graduate but there's no fear of deportation if we get it wrong.

SCEPCOP wrote:So you see, conspiracies aren't black and white. You can't say that they are all false or all true. It's not that simple. You got to take each claim or event and evaluate the evidence pertaining to it. Don't you agree?[/quote"]

Agree

SCEPCOP wrote:Besides, at elite levels of government, banking and secret societies, how do you know what's going on? How do you know what they are plotting? How can you say that they are plotting nothing and that there are no secrets? You can't really know that, can you?


We don't know what's going on in our own neighbor's house, let alone organizations and groups.

SCEPCOP wrote:How do you know that Alex Jones isn't a plant put there to discredit the conspiracy movement? He overacts on every little point, as though he's trying hard to look like a nut case.


How do we know that he's just not a garden variety nut case? The level of attention you give to a person's claims, provides fuel to their fire. It doesn't take much to get that person's claims out to the masses and then they have a following. The claim takes on a life of it's own and grows. The bigger it gets, the more people who start to think that there must be something to what this guy is saying because that many people can't be wrong.

SCEPCOP wrote:David Icke says wonderful things. But he is so smooth and polished, as though every point he makes is rehearsed and practiced. Furthermore, how could a man with arthritis in one hand type up a 700 page book every few years? That doesn't add up, and no one on his forum can explain it. Is someone else writing his books? Is he sitting on a couch dictating while a transcriber takes down everything he says? If so, why does no one know about it? How does he get away with speaking on world tours?

How do you know these folks aren't leading you into another direction out of the way?

How do you know you aren't being manipulated?

If you think that you are being manipulated, you probably are. Listen to your gut, evaluate all the information and form a personal opinion of all the facts.

SCEPCOP wrote:Have you heard of Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World"? There are even two films about it (which are available on YouTube). How do you know we aren't headed in that direction? We can't really know what's being planned for us can we?


You won't find me drinking any Kool-Aid in this lifetime. I'm not into keeping up with the Joneses and I don't have a bumper sticker that says, "Whoever dies with the most toys wins". I will volunteer my time for a political candidate if I agree with their ideas and I won't vote if I have to pick the lesser of two evils because that's all I have to choose from. I guess I tend to have what many would consider to be an abnormal attitude toward life and I don't particularly give a rat's patootie that I do. But hey, that's just me.


WTF?! How did someone else post under my user name? How did that happen? Who wrote the above? Maybe an Illuminati hacker did it? lol
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
User avatar
Scepcop
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: 16 May 2009, 07:29

Re: Is the world freer now than it ever was? Consider this..

Postby Scepcop » 15 Jul 2012, 12:11

Wait a minute. Could the Illuminati exist after all?

After watching some disturbing but revealing films about the JFK assassination, such as:

- Evidence of Revision (10 hour documentary on YouTube)
- The Men Who Killed Kennedy (9 episode History Channel series, available on YouTube)
- Oliver Stone's JFK (1991)

It is very clear and obvious that during the cover up of the JFK assassination, various departments were involved, FBI, CIA, police department, military, secret service, etc. as well as the major media networks. How can that be? How can so many departments and agencies and major media all collaborate in a cover up? That's pretty disturbing when you think about it. Yet it definitely seems to be true.

How can the mainstream media constantly deny the existence of a conspiracy in the JFK assassination, and continually preach the lone nut fictional theory, when all evidence points to a conspiracy, which has been conclusively proven to a 100 percent certainty? Does the major media know that they are involved in fraud and cover up?

Now the question is, doesn't this indicate that every organization and department in America is infiltrated at the top by some kind of control network? If so, does this prove the existence of some Illuminati-like group that is in control of everything, at least in the Western world? If so, does this mean that the Illuminati, or some shadow organization like it, exists after all and is pulling the strings of seemingly separate organizations?

What do you think?
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
User avatar
Scepcop
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: 16 May 2009, 07:29

Re: Is the world freer now than it ever was? Consider this..

Postby NinjaPuppy » 17 Jul 2012, 03:11

Scepcop wrote:WTF?! How did someone else post under my user name? How did that happen? Who wrote the above? Maybe an Illuminati hacker did it? lol

That was me. It's a combination of hitting a wrong button at the top and an HTML error. I didn't want to attempt to try to correct it as it might have only caused a bigger SNAFU.

At least the skeptics here can no longer accuse you of not reading the posts.
User avatar
NinjaPuppy
 
Posts: 4002
Joined: 28 Jul 2009, 20:44


Return to Conspiracies / Cover Ups

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests