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September Clues... Take 2

Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.

Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 01 Jun 2012, 03:05

ProfWag wrote:And if so, we're 4 pages into this discussion and we're still on the first scene? I'm afraid we'll have to go a little faster than that if that's the case.

Oh hell no! I don't like it fast. That's got to be a guy thing. :lol:
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby ProfWag » 01 Jun 2012, 06:41

NinjaPuppy wrote:
ProfWag wrote:And if so, we're 4 pages into this discussion and we're still on the first scene? I'm afraid we'll have to go a little faster than that if that's the case.

Oh hell no! I don't like it fast. That's got to be a guy thing. :lol:

Oh my. Welllllllll, I only meant the discussion on this guy's Clueless video should go fast. Most things in life that really matter should go quite slow for the most part.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 01 Jun 2012, 06:43

And if so, we're 4 pages into this discussion and we're still on the first scene? I'm afraid we'll have to go a little faster than that if that's the case.


I agree with Ninjapuppy on this one. I think my rushing is what got us 4 pages in and still on the first claim.

ProfWag, Please read my posts.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 01 Jun 2012, 06:45

"Oh my. Welllllllll, I only meant the discussion on this guy's Clueless video should go fast. Most things in life that really matter should go quite slow for the most part."

Please read my posts, and it would be a good idea to skim the all the posts in this thread. ProfWag.

Please don't derail this conversation. You are obviously very intelligent, and we can have an honest discussion with out it degenerating.

;)
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 01 Jun 2012, 09:37

HY wrote:Please read my posts, and it would be a good idea to skim the all the posts in this thread. ProfWag.

Please don't derail this conversation. You are obviously very intelligent, and we can have an honest discussion with out it degenerating.

;)


Heero - Did you not know that ProfWag is some sort of paid CIA disinformation agent? OK, he really isn't, although I am beginning to think he might be doing some freelancing on this forum. :lol:

PW was out of town when this topic started and he might want/need some time to catch up. He is also a skeptic who likes to cut to the chase, so I'm sure that it upsets his delicate sensibilities to see people actually discuss something like this in such detail. If at any time you feel that he is derailing the topic, feel free to politely call him out on it. Meanwhile, feel free to continue as you see fit.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby ProfWag » 01 Jun 2012, 20:57

NinjaPuppy wrote:
HY wrote:Please read my posts, and it would be a good idea to skim the all the posts in this thread. ProfWag.

Please don't derail this conversation. You are obviously very intelligent, and we can have an honest discussion with out it degenerating.

;)


Heero - Did you not know that ProfWag is some sort of paid CIA disinformation agent? OK, he really isn't, although I am beginning to think he might be doing some freelancing on this forum. :lol:

PW was out of town when this topic started and he might want/need some time to catch up. He is also a skeptic who likes to cut to the chase, so I'm sure that it upsets his delicate sensibilities to see people actually discuss something like this in such detail. If at any time you feel that he is derailing the topic, feel free to politely call him out on it. Meanwhile, feel free to continue as you see fit.

Okay, okay. I'll let you two discuss this until you get to frame #2. I didn't see anything in the first frame that shouted out "government conspiracy" but perhaps a later discussion will. I'll just monitor for now.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 04 Jun 2012, 11:36

I just want to let you guys know that I have not abandoned this discussion.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby ProfWag » 04 Jun 2012, 20:51

Heero_Yuy wrote:I just want to let you guys know that I have not abandoned this discussion.

Okay. I'm just sittin' here waiting to see what comes next.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 05 Jun 2012, 00:06

Heero_Yuy wrote:I just want to let you guys know that I have not abandoned this discussion.

Me too. We realize that real life gets in the way of this forum from time to time.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 05 Jun 2012, 03:30

I think his first three claims are just that...clues. They are basically circumstantial evidence.

I would question the natural explanation especially in claim 2. The second plane struck the WTC 2. The antenna was on WTC 1. Wouldn't the backup feed have already started if the first plane had already struck. Why would the second plane cause such a blackout? And such a short one to.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 05 Jun 2012, 04:14

Heero_Yuy wrote:I think his first three claims are just that...clues. They are basically circumstantial evidence.

I would question the natural explanation especially in claim 2. The second plane struck the WTC 2. The antenna was on WTC 1. Wouldn't the backup feed have already started if the first plane had already struck. Why would the second plane cause such a blackout? And such a short one to.


OK, I'm lost. As per your link:http://truthaction.org/debunkingseptemberclues.pdf, the second claim or claim 2 is:
Theresa Renaud (on the phone) saw a plane all the way from Chelsea.


Perhaps you can copy and paste each individual claim and response as we move along?
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 05 Jun 2012, 07:53

I decided to check to see if the YouTube version of the debunking was available and here it is:



It pretty much debunks a few of the major claims.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 05 Jun 2012, 09:23

Please Read Entire Post


It seems I have messed up pretty badly. Sorry about that guys.

I was doing the very first claim. The one with the fade to black, where the mic doesn't pick up on the explosion. And... the youtube video is not the same as the PDF. On the PDF it is the very first claim. I did summarize the FIRST CLAIM AND RESPONSE a few posts back, but I will be glad to do this again. For any readers of this thread... sorry for the confusion. I am a pretty new to forums, and it is really showing....

September Clues:

CNN LIVE SHOT

Winston Mitchell is on the north side of the building, near where the plane made contact. He confirms this.
Loop of Anchors voice saying "where the mi... the plane made contact."
The footage shown is courtesy of WABC.
Second plane hit is shown on the screen.
8?? frame blackout and zoom into towers.
Winston reports explosions.
The anchor reports " we've got an explosion inside." to the audience? Probably the audinece.
(on the original footage, not the documentary) about a minute and a half later, the anchor gets word from the producers that a second plane
"may have been involved, but we won't even speculate as to that.(paraphrase)"

Simon Shack observes that:
"NO ONE sees nor mentions "plane""
"screen blacks out on impact (about 8 black frames)"
"Winston's mic/phone picks up ambient sound BUT NO EXPLOSION."

The debunking video observes ON PAGE 2:

PART ONE - The 9/11 Newsmedia Coverage

[‘Fade to black’ addressed at end of this episode.]
Perhaps the TV anchor wasn’t watching the TV monitor in the studio, and thus missed seeing the
plane.
Just because the on-site reporter’s phone didn’t pick up the impact sound, that does not mean that
the Tower did not get hit and did not explode! It simply means that the phone didn’t pick up the
impact sound! There could be many reasons for this. Therefore it does not constitute proof that any
act of fakery took place.
The maker of “September Clues” seems to be implying that because the phone did not pick up an
impact sound, nothing happened to the Tower! Clearly, this is absurd!"

FADE TO BLACK:
The “Fades to Black” could be caused by interference to the signal which is external to the TV
stations, thus affecting both networks simultaneously and in much the same way.
Another possibility, given that there was much TV broadcasting equipment on top of the Twin
Towers, is that the chopper signal, which may have been routed through equipment on top of the
Towers, was interrupted. This would likely have triggered a back-up, hence there was a moment of
signal loss when one signal dies and the switch was made to an alternative source. A huge surge of
TV signal interference could have been caused by the number of electrical circuits being ‘shorted
out’ by the crash and explosion.
Just like the “scenario” presented in “September Clues”, this is also just speculation. However, it
proves that there are reasonable alternative explanations for the “fades to black” which must be
investigated and ruled-out before we can begin to accept any notion that the “fades to black” were
deliberate acts of concealment. Especially when no evidence is offered to support the claim that
they were deliberate acts.

Ninjapuppy,
ProfWag,
you have been more than patient with me.
I hope that this can get us on track once and for all.
My next post will be the problems that I find with the natural explanation that truth action and Nick Irving give for Scene One.

I again apologize for my ineptitude. Don't completely dismiss me for it...
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby ProfWag » 05 Jun 2012, 18:44

Some of the problems with this type of investigation is that NOTHING can be "ruled out." There are plausable explanations for many things such as the reason there was no sound picked up and the fade to blacks is the loss of communication at impact between the impact and the next second when generators kicked in. Yes, those are plausable explanations and, in my mind, probably what happened. However, if you're looking for absolute proof so things can be ruled out, I'm afraid you'll be spinning your wheels.
What I do is take everything as a whole and then come up with an opinion based on everything. Just because one thing happened at 9/11 that can't be explained doesn't mean that as a whole, it was a government conspiracy. There could very easily be an explanation that just hadn't yet been found.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 06 Jun 2012, 07:49

ProfWag, What would you accept as evidence of video tampering. Basically, what would we expect to see in the footage if it was actually tampered with? What would you look for?
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