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September Clues... Take 2

Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.

Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 29 May 2012, 09:31

Heero_Yuy wrote:"Lighting, angles, sun, lack of sun, who the heck knows? I'm more stuck on the different color shades of the different station videos. Now that's a quandry."

I have heard that mentioned as evidence (I think it is mentioned in the video) but why do you think that it is so imortant.

Let's just say it gets my 'spidey senses' tingling.

Heero_Yuy wrote:You keep going back to how it was sunny that day...Do you think that the color hues may have been manipulated. -To make the same video seem different?

He shows what looks like the exact same footage with different hues. None of which looks all that convincing considering the weather conditions for that day. I guess once a large object get thrust into a big building, it would create a whole lot of dust and particles that would make film footage look rather drained out of color.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 29 May 2012, 09:39

Heero_Yuy wrote:?Theresa Renaud (on the phone)
saw a plane all the way from
Chelsea."

http://truthaction.org/debunkingseptemberclues.pdf page 2.

The problem that I see here is that this isn't the actual position that Simon is taking. She didn't just "see a plane all the way..." she saw a plane that, depending on the cameria, was either coming to hit the building from behind diagonally, or "divebombing" into to the building. When you take that into consideration, (and that she was as far away as she was, and did not see the first plane hit) for me it gets a little harder to accept.

Heck, she could have seen several planes at that time. I saw a few jet fighters going up the coast toward NYC at some point that morning. I heard them first, then looked outside and watched them zoom. We're they on their way to the WTC airspace? Heck if I know. I am making an assumption. Perhaps Theresa is doing the same thing. She saw a plane, it was headed that way and then boom! It would be a natural assumption. Especially when you're on the phone with the media getting your 15 minutes of fame.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 29 May 2012, 09:50

"Heck, she could have seen several planes at that time."


But she didn't. She reported an explosion until right after the second plane hit. Look at the footage at 02:56. Listen to her right up until that point.

But that would also mean that she did not actually see a plane.
Last edited by Heero_Yuy on 29 May 2012, 15:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Arouet » 29 May 2012, 11:47

Wow, you guys have been busy tonight! (While I've been playing uncharted 2 bascially!)

HY: this might be helpful to make your posts a little more readible: when quoting someone, surround the text with [quote ]text[/quote ] (but get rid of the spaces). It will put the quoted text in a box.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 29 May 2012, 15:10

Thanks for the tip...

You should join us, Arouet. I know you are not into it, but you still might find this interesting.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Arouet » 29 May 2012, 16:43

Sorry, no. 9/11 is a bottomless pit of muck. There are very pationate people involved in that debate already who dive into every nuance. The amount of material to have even a passing educated understanding is huge. Also, not being American, while I recognize the tragedy, it just doesn't have the same level of interest for me as it does for others.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 29 May 2012, 21:25

Heero_Yuy wrote:
"Heck, she could have seen several planes at that time."


But she didn't. She reported an explosion until right after the second plane hit. Look at the footage at 02:56. Listen to her right up until that point.

But that would also mean that she did not actually see a plane.

I went back to the video and listened to her interview a few times. Theresa claims that she has a view of the Towers and 'heard' an explosion. She gives her location at 8th & 16. "We are the tallest building in the area". OK, great vantage point.

"Ten minutes ago, there was a major explosion". She also says that she "heard" the explosion and was standing there looking out the window but didn't see what caused it.

Now that this point it had been stated over and over by the media that a plane had hit the WTC. For NYC, that's not exactly a shocker as smaller planes have clipped buildings in NYC plenty of times. Theresa must have her eyes planted on this as she states approximately what floor(s) (80th) has been affected. When the next visual occurrence happens, she says, "Oh, there's another one. Another plane just hit. Oh my God! Another plane just has just hit another building! Flew right into the middle of it. Explosion!"

Theresa can be making an assumption of another plane or she may have actually seen something fly into that building. Either way, everyone can agree that she saw something from Chelsea with her own eyes.

Where do you want to go from here?
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Craig Browning » 29 May 2012, 21:40

:lol: Silly you. . . it wasn't her own eyes, it was a set of borrowed eyes that she hadn't adjusted to so of course she saw things all out of sorts :lol:
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 29 May 2012, 22:53

Craig Browning wrote::lol: Silly you. . . it wasn't her own eyes, it was a set of borrowed eyes that she hadn't adjusted to so of course she saw things all out of sorts :lol:

Hey YOU, Craig, GET OFF MY DANGED LAWN! :D

This whole video thing is hard enough to pick apart sentence by sentence without lighthearted commentary thrown in. Of course if you want to watch 1 hour and 30 minutes of CT stuff and then read the other stuff, you're welcomed to join in at any time.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 30 May 2012, 12:01

"Theresa can be making an assumption of another plane or she may have actually seen something fly into that building. Either way, everyone can agree that she saw something from Chelsea with her own eyes."


Assuming that she was in Chelsea, and could see the plane's angle of approach, then yes. That is what I cannot verify, though I have been trying with google maps...
Last edited by Heero_Yuy on 30 May 2012, 12:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 30 May 2012, 12:07

"I can see where that might come into question as it does look a tad funky. Funky=chopper landing gear moves, background doesn't. However, isn't that the chopper that claims to have some sort of gyroscope camera? That would explain it to the average person like me."


"That would explain it to the average person like me."


Maybe I am just tired, or stupid :oops: , but it isn't immediately obvious to me how a gyroscopic camera would immediately explain this; How a close up and far off view could be focused at the same time, or how the chopper landing gear could be moving, but the background remain static. That is like what you see in a bad movie, and it is immediately obvious.

If it could be explained, I am open to it. Perhaps Nostradamus could help, as you said.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 30 May 2012, 21:45

Heero_Yuy wrote:Maybe I am just tired, or stupid :oops: , but it isn't immediately obvious to me how a gyroscopic camera would immediately explain this; How a close up and far off view could be focused at the same time, or how the chopper landing gear could be moving, but the background remain static. That is like what you see in a bad movie, and it is immediately obvious.

I'm thinking that it works like a boat compass. A ball in liquid that calms the movement kind of thing. As for both the close up and far off views being focused, the chopper parts seem a tad clearer than the buildings. We would need someone with experience with such equipment to shed some light on the subject. My area of expertise begins and ends with a slew of cheapo digital cameras and a few very expensive video cameras that I usually wind up breaking in less than a year.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 30 May 2012, 22:17

Heero_Yuy wrote:Assuming that she was in Chelsea...

Are you saying that this call (interview) was one of the alleged staged ones? If not, then we have to take what was said at face value.

Heero_Yuy wrote:and could see the plane's angle of approach...

As the pdf explains, a large plane can be seen at the 3 mile range, so it's possible.

Heero_Yuy wrote:then yes. That is what I cannot verify, though I have been trying with google maps...

Good luck with that. Since the WTC is no longer there, Google Maps isn't of much help in verifying beyond a shadow of a doubt that this could be seen. I was able to use Google Earth to look up and down the streets and there's a pretty good view of the distance but that didn't give me any sort of proof.

I may have access to someone who was working in the WTC at the time of the attack. Perhaps they can shed some light on the information we have at this time. I'll also touch base with my friend who was working in a building across the street that day. I forget if she even knows anything about it as most of us who lost people we knew, basically get a little freaked out when talking about that day. It's usually ok to let them talk if they bring it up but to ask about it out of the blue can be very disturbing for them.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby ProfWag » 30 May 2012, 23:22

It sure seems like a missed a lot over the past couple days!
I don't see a lot of new evidence here that hasn't been discussed and/or dismissed except now some guy is implicating Alex Jones and Richard Gage, among others, into being paid by the government to cover up the events of 9/11.
Here's what I would like to ask anyone. If the 4 planes that attacked the U.S. that day were anything other than terrorists and that the U.S. Government actually assisted or actually did the attack and subsequent cover up, what would be the LEAST amount of people that would have to know and yet keep their mouth shut about their knowledge?
This guy is saying news footage was staged, that Jones and Gage were paid off, that bombs or missiles blew up the buildings, etc. etc. etc. So again, just who would have to know about the cover up and have it successfully take place to the point that it would have fooled litterally billions of people?
Oh, and don't forget about the masterminds behind the attacks who have actually admitted to doing it.
Oh, and don't forget my personal friends who were at the Pentagon that day and have told me about the plane wreckage.
Oh, and don't get about the people on the ground in the video that look up and gasp as the plane flies overhead and crashes into the building.
Oh, and don't forget all the people it would have taken to plant thermite, implosive devices, etc.
Oh, and don't forget about all the government officials to include POTUS, VPOTUS, CJCS, SoS, CIA, etc.
Now, keeping just a few of these issues in mind, remember how virtually every secret of the bin Laden raid has been leaked and someone wants me to believe that what could amount to thousands upon thousands of people all had a part top lay as if they were making a Hollywood movie of the most tragic day on American soil?
I don't deny that Bush used the attacks as an excuse to go after Iraq, but to think he had it staged and risked being caught is ridiculous. I mean, if he wanted Hussein gone, rather than go through an entire script to stage 9/11, he could have easily sent a lonely farmer in Baghdad a few thousand bucks and he would have taken Hussein out for him and saved a whole lot of hassle.
Sorry. My brain (and common sense) hasn't allowed me to accept that just yet. I worked with government officials for over 20 years and there were relatively very few who could keep a surprise birthday party a secret, much less a conspiracy of this magnitude.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 31 May 2012, 01:13

ProfWag wrote:It sure seems like a missed a lot over the past couple days!

That's what happens when you're off jet setting with the tennis crowd.

ProfWag wrote:I don't see a lot of new evidence here that hasn't been discussed and/or dismissed except now some guy is implicating Alex Jones and Richard Gage, among others, into being paid by the government to cover up the events of 9/11.

Exactly. This topic has been discussed here in the past and a new member wanted to discuss it fresh, in his own way. You got a problem wit dat?

ProfWag wrote:Here's what I would like to ask anyone. If the 4 planes that attacked the U.S. that day were anything other than terrorists and that the U.S. Government actually assisted or actually did the attack and subsequent cover up, what would be the LEAST amount of people that would have to know and yet keep their mouth shut about their knowledge?

We haven't gotten that far along yet. We're still on the first few minutes of the video. All I can say in response to your question is this quote by Benjamin Franklin: "Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead."

ProfWag wrote:This guy is saying news footage was staged, that Jones and Gage were paid off, that bombs or missiles blew up the buildings, etc. etc. etc. So again, just who would have to know about the cover up and have it successfully take place to the point that it would have fooled litterally billions of people?

See above.

ProfWag wrote:Sorry. My brain (and common sense) hasn't allowed me to accept that just yet. I worked with government officials for over 20 years and there were relatively very few who could keep a surprise birthday party a secret, much less a conspiracy of this magnitude.

I don't believe that anyone here (me and OP) agrees or disagrees with either set of issues at this point. We're merely picking apart both sides of an issue one claim/counterclaim at a time. OP has an interest in this and I'm willing to play the' home version' of this exercise with him. Besides, he asked so darned politely on his introduction post:

HY wrote:Here are some of the topics I am interested in. I can began talking about them any time.

-History: Fiction or Science, already has an entry here, but I would like to further the discussion. What of his critique of Carbon dating? Or his comparison of Names and paintings?
The first three volumes are on Google books. Perhaps ProfWag would discuss them with me?


-September Clues- I have seen the videos and some rebuttal. I would like to go through the series point by point, analyzing each claim. Would you be interested, SKEPCOP?... Arouet?

-Philosophy- Particularly the essay Death and Furniture (free online, just look it up), and how it may undermine the baseline arguments for realism such as are given in the Sequences on the site Less Wrong (particularly the first entry). Craig, are you up for it?

-"Randi's Prize: What Skeptics Say about the Paranormal..." Is it just the paranormal version of The Case for Christ, or does the rabbit hole go deeper? Anyone?


Of course Arouet was kind enough to express his reasons for lack of interest in this area, so it wound up being just Heero and me.

I also liked his Heero's up questions:
I also have some questions as I began my journey here:

SKEPCOP, why do you abandon threads after a few posts?
If there really is a World Conspiracy, are you afraid for your life, or the lives of those that come onto this forum?
Do you think you are putting them in danger?
Perhaps you could allow for more anonymity when signing on... (like no required email?)

There are more, but I will start here. If I have been offensive, I apologize, but if I am going to post something that will be on the internet forever, I think I'd better make it count. These Issues are serious, and I might as well try to deal with them that way. Even if all of them turn out to be bunk. I am in a good position right now to evaluate these claims:. Help me. You think I am an idiot: correct me. Above all ENGAGE Me. Here I am.
[/quote]

Prof - You gotta admit, his first question has been one that has baffled even you. :lol:
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