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September Clues... Take 2

Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.

Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 29 May 2012, 08:25

"all you can hear is the slapping of nylon lines (I was on a boat) and the woman next to me talking to her mom."

So if I am understanding you correctly, it is possible that the explosion simply might not have been picked up? Perhaps as a result of the many skyscrapers of New York? When heard in other videos, the explosion seems pretty loud. (We will see that Simon also disputes these sounds as being synthesized.)

I shouldn't be surprised, but it seems it is very hard to nail down any of these claims one way or another. Some videos present information that is clearly factual or in factual. Simon is going with more of a

"let's observe this and see if there is anything strange."

Heero Yuy
Last edited by Heero_Yuy on 29 May 2012, 15:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 29 May 2012, 08:38

NP wrote:"all you can hear is the slapping of nylon lines (I was on a boat) and the woman next to me talking to her mom."

Heero_Yuy wrote:So if I am understanding you correctly, it is possible that the explosion simply might not have been picked up? Perhaps as a result of the many skyscrapers of New York? When heard in other videos, the explosion seems pretty loud. (We will see that Simon also disputes these sounds as being synthesized.)

Depending on the quality of the camera or the equipment, plus the surroundings, it's possible. It should pick up something that loud but it's not always foolproof.

HY wrote:I shouldn't be surprised, but it seems it is very hard to nail down any of these claims one way or another. Some videos present information that is clearly factual or in factual. Simon is going with more of a "let's observe this and see if there is anything strange."

IMO, there's plenty of food for thought in that video that we can speculate about. The problem is that is all we can do on an internet forum is speculate. Aside from the fact that I went to ground zero shortly after the disaster and walked in the rubble and watched the smoke come out of that hole with my own eyes, I can't verify any of what has been reported from either side.

Heero_Yuy wrote:I had thought about starting this conversation by looking at a more neutral video of his, one where he "takes apart," video of a "natural disaster," in Europe that is less... politically charged. Then I forgot. Your not the only one Ninjapuppy....

My question is.... I'm not the only what? All I have to say is that I had better NOT be "the only old lady with plenty of free time on her hands to discuss this stuff". :lol:
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 29 May 2012, 08:44

No, Simply that your not the only person to forget something. You mentioned earlier you had limited recall of the day of 9/11
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 29 May 2012, 08:46

I have a hard time seeing you as an old lady. You must be young at heart...For me this is actually a little relaxing. That's why I do it in my free time.

Heero

:geek: , but a 8-) :geek:
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 29 May 2012, 08:49

Heero_Yuy wrote:I have a hard time seeing you as an old lady. You must be young at heart...

Bless your heart. :D

I guess you can say that I just love a good mystery and some conspiracy theories can be pretty darned convincing.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 29 May 2012, 08:51

Ahhhh, free time! WTF is that? I haven't had nearly enough of that lately but my work busy season is over and I can play a bit again. Most days I fly through this forum on my broomstick, deleting spammers and once I'm finished with that any chance of getting into a good convo becomes impossible because I have to switch screens between the Admin controls and the forum and then all the new stuff gets buried.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 29 May 2012, 08:52

I was hoping to get to a place where I could say, Yes this claim is likely true, or No, Simon Shack is probably being dishonest.

For me, while it is possible that no sound was picked up, it seems unlikely.

As for the "dive bomber plane," as opposed to the "coming in from the side" plane, that may be an "evidence," where you could clearly say: "something seems wrong," or "It's just camera perspectives."

Another Piece of evidence that seems strange is whether Theresa could have seen the Boeing from three miles away at the angle of its approach. Why in latter clips do the planes look almost black. Then again, maybe thats just the camera being... a camera.

Heero
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 29 May 2012, 08:56

Heero_Yuy wrote:I was hoping to get to a place where I could say, Yes this claim is likely true, or No, Simon Shack is probably being dishonest.

For me, while it is possible that no sound was picked up, it seems unlikely.

As for the "dive bomber plane," as opposed to the "coming in from the side" plane, that may be an "evidence," where you could clearly say: "something seems wrong," or "It's just camera perspectives."

I have to say that he did an excellent job comparing that dive bomber footage with the plane footage. I have no idea as to any of that as this is the first time I have seen it.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 29 May 2012, 09:04

I looked up anti-aliasing...which Simon uses to compare the nose in / nose out shots to each other, and which Mr. Irving Disputes.

Here is what I found from PC MAG:

(1) Smoothing the jagged appearance of diagonal lines in a bitmapped image. The pixels that surround the edges of the line are changed to varying shades of gray or color in order to blend the sharp edge into the background. This technique is also called "dithering," but is usually known as anti-aliasing when applied to diagonal and curved lines.

(2) Smoothing a distorted signal by applying various techniques that add data or filter out unwanted noise.

And This:
In digital signal processing, spatial anti-aliasing is the technique of minimizing the distortion artifacts known as aliasing when representing a high-resolution image at a lower resolution. Anti-aliasing is used in digital photography, computer graphics, digital audio, and many other applications.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 29 May 2012, 09:07

From Wikipedia. Irving seems to cast some doubt on the footage and comparison:

When anti-aliasing is used to ‘smooth’ the information between enlarged pixels, many unlike
objects can be made to appear similar. Anti-aliasing was not used in the enlargements above,
which were taken from a better copy of the ‘Chopper 5’ video than the one analysed by
“September Clues”.

So perhaps the "precision match" is no match at all.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 29 May 2012, 09:10

Another Piece of evidence that seems strange is whether Theresa could have seen the Boeing from three miles away at the angle of its approach. Why in latter clips do the planes look almost black. Then again, maybe thats just the camera being... a camera.

Lighting, angles, sun, lack of sun, who the heck knows? I'm more stuck on the different color shades of the different station videos. Now that's a quandry.

I wonder if Nostradamus is still lurking around. I think he was a wiz kid with photography. He probably can give plenty of reasons for those questions.

Your other post about anti-alaising is a bit too technical for me. I understand it...sort of but it seems a fancy way to say blending an object into a pic. I can do that with still shots but never got the hang of it with video.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby NinjaPuppy » 29 May 2012, 09:13

Heero_Yuy wrote:From Wikipedia. Irving seems to cast some doubt on the footage and comparison:

When anti-aliasing is used to ‘smooth’ the information between enlarged pixels, many unlike
objects can be made to appear similar. Anti-aliasing was not used in the enlargements above,
which were taken from a better copy of the ‘Chopper 5’ video than the one analysed by
“September Clues”.

So perhaps the "precision match" is no match at all.

OK, so now we're up to the Chopper 5 footage? I can see where that might come into question as it does look a tad funky. Funky=chopper landing gear moves, background doesn't. However, isn't that the chopper that claims to have some sort of gyroscope camera? That would explain it to the average person like me.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 29 May 2012, 09:14

"Lighting, angles, sun, lack of sun, who the heck knows? I'm more stuck on the different color shades of the different station videos. Now that's a quandry."


I have heard that mentioned as evidence (I think it is mentioned in the video) but why do you think that it is so imortant. You keep going back to how it was sunny that day...

Do you think that the color hues may have been manipulated.

-To make the same video seem different?
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 29 May 2012, 09:17

"OK, so now we're up to the Chopper 5 footage?"


Sorry, I skipped ahead to look at the "micro-precision match," of the nose in / nose out shot.
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Re: September Clues... Take 2

Postby Heero_Yuy » 29 May 2012, 09:21

"Theresa Renaud (on the phone)
saw a plane all the way from
Chelsea."

http://truthaction.org/debunkingseptemberclues.pdf page 2.


The problem that I see here is that this isn't the actual position that Simon is taking. She didn't just "see a plane all the way..." she saw a plane that, depending on the camera, was either coming to hit the building from behind diagonally, or "dive-bombing" into to the building. When you take that into consideration, (and that she was as far away as she was, and did not see the first plane hit, and her angle may have made it very difficult to see the plane) for me it gets a little harder to accept.
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