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Lies and cover up in the death of Pat Tillman

Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.

Lies and cover up in the death of Pat Tillman

Postby Scepcop » 16 Oct 2011, 00:42

Did Pat Tillman turn against the Iraq War? Was he about to go public with it? Would that have been a disaster for the US warmongers? What did his parents find out when they investigated?

Trailer for "The Tillman Story" film.



Noam Chomsky says that Pat Tillman wanted to meet with him.

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Lies and cover up in the death of Pat Tillman

Postby ProfWag » 16 Oct 2011, 02:37

Speaking from one who is a veteran of both OIF and OEF, Winston, it's really no secret that almost none of us thought the war in Iraq was as justified as the one in Afghanistan. In fact, everyone I knew were pissed if they got orders to Iraq over Afghanistan, and not because Iraq was more dangerous at the time. That would have been no big secret and a sentiment by all of his brothers in arms. You and these people who wish to spread anti-government propoganda will stoop to some pretty low levels. Pat was a hero, regardless of what rumor you people who weren't even there want to spread.
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Re: Lies and cover up in the death of Pat Tillman

Postby craig weiler » 16 Oct 2011, 23:38

ProfWag,
I can't imagine that Pat Tillman was going to come out against the wars. His death, the controversy and finally the truth were widely covered in California and at no point was anything mentioned about him coming out against any war. I am deeply suspicious of this "information" coming out now and so conveniently serving liberal interests. It smacks of propaganda. He died in the line of duty doing his job and he deserves the utmost respect for that. The fact of who killed him is irrelevant. Certainly the cover up after the fact was despicable. The military has no right to re-invent the facts to suit their propaganda interests. The military serves us and we have a right to be properly informed.

Iraq wasn't just wrong, it was an illegal war based on false pretenses. We were lied to and manipulated. The severity of that cannot be underestimated. That is not anti-government propaganda, it is just the plain truth.
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Re: Lies and cover up in the death of Pat Tillman

Postby Craig Browning » 17 Oct 2011, 00:55

Winston, if you hate the American Government so much and don't trust it, why don't you move to another country. . . back to your homeland, I'm certain they would allow you to express yourself as you do and question their authority and all those other freedoms you seem to like abusing here.

Sorry, but I've grown quite tired of you only posting this kind of crap; especially when it is anti-American in essence. But you go way too far when you start in on things like 9/11 and military scenarios like this when you know there are members here that have very deep connections to those things. It's not just an arrogant thing, it's really inhuman, which is not the kind of person I thought you were when I first met you on line. . . then again, I didn't realize how far on the fringe you tend to position yourself either.

Please, no one here is going to swallow this kind of stupidity -- gossip. Most of us here are well read and when we encounter this sort of thing we will more than likely look around the idea to see what the over-all FACTS tend to be. The usual fact is that bored pseudo-intelligent people want to stir up the drama in order to feel important, throwing caution to the wind. A lot of the times they appeal to the National Enquirer/trailer trash type consumer base because such folks are less likely to do any research and will accept just about anything they read in a "paper".

Maybe you should try reading the New York Times and Wall Street Journal or even SCIENCE or NAT GEO publications instead of the crap you find at the grocery store check out stand? (other than TIME of course)
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Re: Lies and cover up in the death of Pat Tillman

Postby Scepcop » 17 Oct 2011, 05:00

ProfWag wrote:Speaking from one who is a veteran of both OIF and OEF, Winston, it's really no secret that almost none of us thought the war in Iraq was as justified as the one in Afghanistan. In fact, everyone I knew were pissed if they got orders to Iraq over Afghanistan, and not because Iraq was more dangerous at the time. That would have been no big secret and a sentiment by all of his brothers in arms. You and these people who wish to spread anti-government propoganda will stoop to some pretty low levels. Pat was a hero, regardless of what rumor you people who weren't even there want to spread.


So how come the government lied and said that Tillman was killed by the Taliban? That was the official version of his death. And since you and your skeptic kind believe that the official version of anything is ALWAYS the truth, how do you explain this lie? Do you admit that they lied and that the official version was a lie, this time?

Also, if the government lied about his death, how do you know what else they are lying about? You and your kind assume that authority=truth. That is your major logic fallacy.
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Re: Lies and cover up in the death of Pat Tillman

Postby Scepcop » 17 Oct 2011, 05:04

craig weiler wrote:ProfWag,
I can't imagine that Pat Tillman was going to come out against the wars. His death, the controversy and finally the truth were widely covered in California and at no point was anything mentioned about him coming out against any war. I am deeply suspicious of this "information" coming out now and so conveniently serving liberal interests. It smacks of propaganda. He died in the line of duty doing his job and he deserves the utmost respect for that. The fact of who killed him is irrelevant. Certainly the cover up after the fact was despicable. The military has no right to re-invent the facts to suit their propaganda interests. The military serves us and we have a right to be properly informed.

Iraq wasn't just wrong, it was an illegal war based on false pretenses. We were lied to and manipulated. The severity of that cannot be underestimated. That is not anti-government propaganda, it is just the plain truth.


You must have missed this Nightline Special about Pat Tillman. In it, his family and wife talk about the postcards and letters from Pat Tillman where he expressed his disgust at the Iraq War and called it an illegal war. His fellow soldiers said that he told them he was opposed to the war too. Here is the Nightline Special.

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Lies and cover up in the death of Pat Tillman

Postby Scepcop » 17 Oct 2011, 05:06

Craig Browning,
I am an expat who lives overseas. Remember? You must have a poor memory.

Why do you hate truth and inquiry so much? If you hate the truth, then don't come here and read the posts.
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Re: Lies and cover up in the death of Pat Tillman

Postby craig weiler » 17 Oct 2011, 05:15

Scepcop,
I didn't see the video but I take your word for it that he was against the war in Iraq. But those were private letters, not press releases. Being against the war and coming out publicly against it are two entirely different things.

Still, I didn't know about that.
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Re: Lies and cover up in the death of Pat Tillman

Postby Craig Browning » 17 Oct 2011, 20:20

Scepcop wrote:Craig Browning,
I am an expat who lives overseas. Remember? You must have a poor memory.

Why do you hate truth and inquiry so much? If you hate the truth, then don't come here and read the posts.


Then start posting TRUTH instead of National Inquirer stories.

If you live elsewhere, what gives you the right to bash this nation, its laws and policies. You gave that right up when you became a turn-coat vs. part of the solution.

I forgot however, that would require you to deal with actual facts vs. your fantasies about ET, Evil Overlords, and the Lizard People that "actually" rule the planet. :roll:
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Re: Lies and cover up in the death of Pat Tillman

Postby Arouet » 17 Oct 2011, 20:25

Craig Browning wrote:If you live elsewhere, what gives you the right to bash this nation, its laws and policies. You gave that right up when you became a turn-coat vs. part of the solution.


What? we're only allowed to criticise the country in which we live?
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Re: Lies and cover up in the death of Pat Tillman

Postby NinjaPuppy » 17 Oct 2011, 20:28

Craig Browning wrote:Winston, if you hate the American Government so much and don't trust it, why don't you move to another country. . . back to your homeland, I'm certain they would allow you to express yourself as you do and question their authority and all those other freedoms you seem to like abusing here.

Hmmmm. Somebody hasn't been paying attention here (Craig)... Winston doesn't live in the good old USA anymore. He did in fact move to another country.
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Re: Lies and cover up in the death of Pat Tillman

Postby ProfWag » 17 Oct 2011, 20:57

For a good chuckle, check out Winston's other website: www.happierabroad.com .

Craig W - For once, I couldn't agree with you more.

Craig B - I also totally agree with you.

Winston - Of course there was going to be confusion that day. You and the people who are putting this crap out have obviously never spent a minute in a combat zone. Let me add that I, too, speak out that the Iraq war was unjust and believe quite sincerely that it was George 42's way of finishing what his Dad couldn't. (And no, I'm not looking over my shoulder to see if some Bush Leftover is going to shoot me for saying it.) That doesn't mean he had Pat Tillman shot and even if he did, who the hell would purposefully follow an illegal order like that? We're trained very thoroughly that the UCMJ protection at killing people stops the second we follow an illegal order. Unless you have a clue about what you're talking about, you should just stay in your other silly forum.
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Re: Lies and cover up in the death of Pat Tillman

Postby Craig Browning » 19 Oct 2011, 00:46

Arouet wrote:
Craig Browning wrote:If you live elsewhere, what gives you the right to bash this nation, its laws and policies. You gave that right up when you became a turn-coat vs. part of the solution.


What? we're only allowed to criticise the country in which we live?


I believe that someone that has turned their back on their nation needs to stop stirring the pot.

Winston supposedly found greener grass somewhere but keeps wanting to come over here to take a dump. . . he needs to pee in his own pool and poop in his own yard, that's the choice he made when he ran away.

Secondly, he's obviously too spineless to actually serve in the military (like most big talking CT nuts); has little to no respect for anything that resembles authority and I'm betting he threw hellish temper-tantrums when mom & dad said "NO" to him as a child.

I may have deep problems with the government but I love my country, I have bled for my country and had I the chance I would have re-upped during the first Gulf War just to load one bomb to drop on Baghdad (I was an Ordnance-man on A-6 Intruders). I will fight for the country and that includes defending it against punks that are quick to judge things without any sense of foundation and proper perspective (and I have loads of left-wingers that thing I'm Joe Republican because of my moderate "pro-America" views).

I could certainly find fault in how things are done in other nations but I don't live in them and unless those laws somehow affect me and the rest of the world in a negative or harmful manner IT'S NOT MY JOB to criticize or demean.
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Re: Lies and cover up in the death of Pat Tillman

Postby Arouet » 19 Oct 2011, 01:19

Even if this is true:

Craig Browning wrote:Secondly, he's obviously too spineless to actually serve in the military (like most big talking CT nuts); has little to no respect for anything that resembles authority and I'm betting he threw hellish temper-tantrums when mom & dad said "NO" to him as a child.



It still doesn't justify this:

I believe that someone that has turned their back on their nation needs to stop stirring the pot.

Winston supposedly found greener grass somewhere but keeps wanting to come over here to take a dump. . . he needs to pee in his own pool and poop in his own yard, that's the choice he made when he ran away.


One of the freedoms you fought for below was for the freedom of expressions and association. You may love your country but that doesn't mean that your country - nor any country - is beyond reproach or exempt from criticism.

I may have deep problems with the government but I love my country, I have bled for my country and had I the chance I would have re-upped during the first Gulf War just to load one bomb to drop on Baghdad (I was an Ordnance-man on A-6 Intruders). I will fight for the country and that includes defending it against punks that are quick to judge things without any sense of foundation and proper perspective (and I have loads of left-wingers that thing I'm Joe Republican because of my moderate "pro-America" views).

I could certainly find fault in how things are done in other nations but I don't live in them and unless those laws somehow affect me and the rest of the world in a negative or harmful manner IT'S NOT MY JOB to criticize or demean.
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