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JFK Assassination Conspiracy

Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.

Re: JFK Assassination Conspiracy

Postby Misha » 15 Oct 2012, 03:01

Concerning Max Holland. I am carrying the argument of Max Holland over here from the Richard Gage AIA thread. Is Max Holland a CIA asset. In my opinion, yes. We only have to ask Jim Marrs, Mark Lane, Doug Horne and others why they feel the same. Make sure you read the comments below the post:

http://realhistoryarchives.blogspot.com ... ation.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Holland

Holland even received an award for his work with intelligence. I would say he is an asset...
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Re: JFK Assassination Conspiracy

Postby NinjaPuppy » 15 Oct 2012, 05:36

I'll start a new thread to discuss the NatGeo documentaries as I have been watching a few of them this weekend.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2551
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Re: JFK Assassination Conspiracy

Postby ProfWag » 15 Oct 2012, 21:04

Misha wrote:Concerning Max Holland. I am carrying the argument of Max Holland over here from the Richard Gage AIA thread. Is Max Holland a CIA asset. In my opinion, yes. We only have to ask Jim Marrs, Mark Lane, Doug Horne and others why they feel the same. Make sure you read the comments below the post:

http://realhistoryarchives.blogspot.com ... ation.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Holland

Holland even received an award for his work with intelligence. I would say he is an asset...

Let's say for a minute that he is a CIA asset. My response is...so? Where has he been dishonest? I'm certainly not saying he hasn't been as I don't follow his journalism, but I'm just curious why being a CIA asset is a bad thing.
And of course, if Max has written negatively about the work of Marrs, Horne, et.al, they will certainly want to give him a bad name so my would we ask them? That's not logical Misha.
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Re: JFK Assassination Conspiracy

Postby Misha » 16 Oct 2012, 03:42

ProfWag wrote:
Misha wrote:Concerning Max Holland. I am carrying the argument of Max Holland over here from the Richard Gage AIA thread. Is Max Holland a CIA asset. In my opinion, yes. We only have to ask Jim Marrs, Mark Lane, Doug Horne and others why they feel the same. Make sure you read the comments below the post:

http://realhistoryarchives.blogspot.com ... ation.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Holland

Holland even received an award for his work with intelligence. I would say he is an asset...

Let's say for a minute that he is a CIA asset. My response is...so? Where has he been dishonest? I'm certainly not saying he hasn't been as I don't follow his journalism, but I'm just curious why being a CIA asset is a bad thing.
And of course, if Max has written negatively about the work of Marrs, Horne, et.al, they will certainly want to give him a bad name so my would we ask them? That's not logical Misha.


Ok, that's a fair comment. It is not that assets in general are bad provided they do not dissemble, obfuscate or lie about the facts. The important thing to realize with Holland is that he has a bias for the CIA. Researchers should measure this against all research out there.
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Re: JFK Assassination Conspiracy

Postby Misha » 03 Nov 2012, 20:13

Hi Guys,

This was in today's NY Times:


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/03/world ... 0X+t5ZIDxw

"Mr. Mailer’s book incorporated techniques of fiction like imagined dialogue, muddying the historical picture and in some views squandering what turned out to be a one-time opportunity to view the file."
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Re: JFK Assassination Conspiracy

Postby Scepcop » 12 Nov 2012, 01:55

Check out this taped confession by E Howard Hunt, a CIA officer who worked for Nixon, about his inside knowledge about the JFK Assassination. It was made by his son before he died. There is audio and video of the confession.

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: JFK Assassination Conspiracy

Postby Arouet » 12 Nov 2012, 08:14

I was excited until I saw that it was the guy blamed for watergate.
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Re: JFK Assassination Conspiracy

Postby SydneyPSIder » 13 Nov 2012, 08:04

Misha might know the answer to this one -- I was surfing the net recently and came across a site by following some links with a pic of the Book Depository where a claim was made that there was a sniper, not Oswald, at the opposite end of the building on the 6th floor, and it's possible to blow up the pic and get a human profile out of it -- a young guy wearing a white t-shirt. It's also impossible for LHO to have been on the 6th floor in a 'nest' without being able to look all the way along the inside of the building and see this guy doing something strange on the same floor, and without the guy of course seeing him with a putative sniper's rifle going about his everyday business. Of course, it seems highly unlikely LHO was on the 6th floor at all because he would have had to go down several flights of stairs and was found hanging around a Coke machine not the least bit out of breath seconds after the shooting = patsy.

Now I can't find this site and the pic analysis with a google search, but it made interesting reading. The point was made that that particular pic was always cropped in the press coverage and by the Warren Commission to exclude the window with the mysterious 'shadow' in it.

EDIT: it was the Tom Dillard photo, I believe, which places someone in the western corner window, not the south-eastern supposedly occupied by LHO. There is further eyewitness evidence from the day that suggests that at least 2 gunmen fled the TSBD -- and never said anything to protect themselves and their families.
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Re: JFK Assassination Conspiracy

Postby NinjaPuppy » 15 Nov 2012, 02:09

All I know is that I attempted to watch the movie, "JFK" the other night and it confused the heck out of me. I'm just getting up to speed on what are known as some of the facts about this incident and I couldn't figure out what was fact and what was speculation, fiction or good entertainment.
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Re: JFK Assassination Conspiracy

Postby SydneyPSIder » 15 Nov 2012, 05:03

I think most of what appeared in JFK was verifiable, a few guessed at shots like what David Ferrie (Joe Pesci) and Clay Shaw must have gotten up to in their spare time. Jim Garrison did a lot of good work against the odds.

The event was now some 50 years ago, although it is still a 'modern' event, and in some ways technology has not moved on all that much. (And it appears that today's improved technology disturbingly is only useful for fabricating pictorial evidence when necessary.) I'm not particularly obsessed by that case because of time and it's not my country or system of govt or rogue agencies to worry about. The implications for govts around the world are still disturbing however. Meanwhile, in South Vietnam, the CIA was orchestrating the assassination of the Ngo brothers as they weren't opposing the tide of communism sufficiently to their liking -- although they were difficult times in that region. Apparently assassinations of other world leaders by the US go by accepted and unremarked as the normal conduct of business, but when it's their own it's a big deal, and must be a 'crackpot conspiracy'.

There are just so many books and analyses out there. Just stumbling on various items looking for the elusive south west corner pic, and it threw up this fragment of how the media were manipulated at the time -- several outlets had extra footage which 'disappeared' which probably showed the assassins and other evidence:

http://scribblguy.50megs.com/takingof5.htm

Apparently some 81% of Americans believe it was staged and LHO was a patsy on the balance of probabilities...
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Re: JFK Assassination Conspiracy

Postby Misha » 17 Nov 2012, 01:22

NinjaPuppy wrote:All I know is that I attempted to watch the movie, "JFK" the other night and it confused the heck out of me. I'm just getting up to speed on what are known as some of the facts about this incident and I couldn't figure out what was fact and what was speculation, fiction or good entertainment.


Hi Guys,

This article is interesting by Jim Fetzer. This should answer or raise some questions about the lies the Warren Report put out.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/11/14 ... a-shooter/
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Re: JFK Assassination Conspiracy

Postby NinjaPuppy » 17 Nov 2012, 19:47

Oh my!
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Re: JFK Assassination Conspiracy

Postby Scepcop » 18 Nov 2012, 02:11

There are whistleblowers from insiders about the JFK assassination. Thus, the question of "Why hasn't anyone talked?" is wrong because insiders have. For example, E Howard Hunt, a long time intelligence officer who worked for Nixon and engineered the Watergate burglary, gave a deathbed confession to his son before died about his involvement and knowledge of the JFK assassination. It was both filmed and taped, and can be found on YouTube. It was also featured in Jesse Ventura's "Conspiracy Theory" in an episode about the JFK assassination, which you can find on YouTube as well.

Wikipedia reports this confession on their website:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Howard_Hunt#Late_JFK_conspiracy_allegations_and_death

"Late JFK conspiracy allegations and death

During the last few years and months of Hunt's life, he made several claims about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, as reported by his son Saint John Hunt. In audio recordings, discussions and writings, Hunt said (according to his son) that he and several others were involved in a conspiracy to kill President Kennedy.[55] He said the codename the conspirators gave for the operation was "The Big Event," and that Vice- President Lyndon B. Johnson ordered the assassination and assigned Cord Meyer to implement the details. Meyer recruited the people who planned and carried out the killing, including David Phillips, Frank Sturgis, David Morales, William Harvey, a French gunman, and Lucien Sarti, who worked for the Mafia.[55][56]
Hunt died on January 23, 2007 in Miami, Florida of pneumonia[57][58] and is buried in Prospect Lawn Cemetery, Hamburg, New York. Hunt's memoir American Spy: My Secret History in the CIA, Watergate, and Beyond was published by John Wiley & Sons in March 2007.[59]"


The mainstream media didn't like this, so they ignored it and did not report it. And Vince Bugliosi didn't like it either, since it ruins his whole 1600 page book "Reclaiming History" that argued that Oswald did it alone. So he reacted with cognitive dissonance, and accused Hunt's son of fraud, totally ignoring the fact that he had a taped confession from his father. This can only mean that Bugliosi is totally agenda-driven and not interested in truth. Or else too rigid to accept that he is wrong. Either way, Bugliosi is wrong when he claimed that there are no whistleblowers in the JFK assasssination conspiracy.

Former President and Warren Commission member Gerald Ford also made a confession before his death in 2006:

http://crimemagazine.com/former-president-ford-admits-cia-compromised-warren-commissions-probe-jfk-assassination

"In his final public words, former President Gerald R. Ford said the CIA destroyed or kept from investigators critical secrets connected to the 1963 assassination of President John F. Kennedy. The stunning admission by Ford—a member of the Warren Commission that investigated the JFK assassination—is contained in the foreword to a new edition of the commission's report, "A Presidential Legacy and The Warren Commission". Ford died in late 2006 at the age of 93.
In the new book, Ford said the commission's probe put "certain classified and potentially damaging operations in danger of being exposed." The CIA's reaction, he added, "was to hide or destroy some information, which can easily be misinterpreted as collusion in JFK's assassination.""


There are other whistleblowers as well. Colonel E. Fletcher Prouty, Chief of Special Operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, exposed the plot to get rid of Kennedy. He even wrote books about it, such as "The Secret Team" and "JFK, The CIA, Vietnam, And The Plot To Assassinate John F. Kennedy" (available on Amazon.com) In Oliver Stone's film JFK (1991) he was featured as the "Mr. X" character who gives Jim Garrison (played by Kevin Costner) inside info and counsel. And LBJ's mistress, Madeleine Duncan Brown, reported that she overheard him talking about getting rid of JFK. You can hear her testimony on YouTube.

Additionally, there are whistleblowers in the mob as well, which were involved in the plot at a lower level, such as mobster boss Carlos Marcello and Johnny Roselli. (See the History Channel series, "The Men Who Killed Kennedy".) So you see, the lone nut apologists are wrong when they say that there are no whistleblowers.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: JFK Assassination Conspiracy

Postby Misha » 19 Nov 2012, 01:04

That's a pretty good breakdown of those who have spoken up on the assassination, Scepcop. I agree the information is out there for the most part. Again, it is the consumption factor which moves a particular event forward in the public.
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Re: JFK Assassination Conspiracy

Postby Misha » 19 Nov 2012, 01:12

SydneyPSIder wrote:I think most of what appeared in JFK was verifiable, a few guessed at shots like what David Ferrie (Joe Pesci) and Clay Shaw must have gotten up to in their spare time. Jim Garrison did a lot of good work against the odds.

The event was now some 50 years ago, although it is still a 'modern' event, and in some ways technology has not moved on all that much. (And it appears that today's improved technology disturbingly is only useful for fabricating pictorial evidence when necessary.) I'm not particularly obsessed by that case because of time and it's not my country or system of govt or rogue agencies to worry about. The implications for govts around the world are still disturbing however. Meanwhile, in South Vietnam, the CIA was orchestrating the assassination of the Ngo brothers as they weren't opposing the tide of communism sufficiently to their liking -- although they were difficult times in that region. Apparently assassinations of other world leaders by the US go by accepted and unremarked as the normal conduct of business, but when it's their own it's a big deal, and must be a 'crackpot conspiracy'.

There are just so many books and analyses out there. Just stumbling on various items looking for the elusive south west corner pic, and it threw up this fragment of how the media were manipulated at the time -- several outlets had extra footage which 'disappeared' which probably showed the assassins and other evidence:

http://scribblguy.50megs.com/takingof5.htm

Apparently some 81% of Americans believe it was staged and LHO was a patsy on the balance of probabilities...


Hi SydneyPSIder,

I agree with your assessment on the Diem brothers and the CIA. Vietnam was a CIA war going back to the fifties under the Saigon Military Mission. In fact, we were even shooting it out with the French in Saigon over the control of the opium/heroine markets. You can read about this in Alfred McCoy's excellent book - "The Politics of Heroine."

Yes, I am not obsessed with the JFK assassination either. However, I am interested in the modus operandi of how things really work during that time measured against today's intrigue.
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