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Moon Landing Hoax - Evidence, Logic and Common Sense

Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.

Re: Moon Landing Hoax - Evidence, Logic and Common Sense

Postby Arouet » 14 Dec 2012, 03:28

If White knew about that Van Allen quote it certainly would be intellectually dishonest of him not to mention it.
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Re: Moon Landing Hoax - Evidence, Logic and Common Sense

Postby SydneyPSIder » 14 Dec 2012, 14:11

yes, although it appears Dr James van Allen and other 'experts' suddenly changed their tune when they went on the NASA payroll. I assume you will be able to head this concern off as part of your brilliant research effort.
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Re: Moon Landing Hoax - Evidence, Logic and Common Sense

Postby SydneyPSIder » 14 Dec 2012, 14:44

ProfWag wrote:I apologize for not posting my source earlier from which I was challenged on my “unscientific” comment about “thousands and thousands of scientists have examined moon rocks…” My comment came from a recent memory of reading NASA’s website which stated:
"I have here in my office a 10-foot high stack of scientific books full of papers about the Apollo Moon rocks," added McKay. "Researchers in thousands of labs have examined Apollo Moon samples -- not a single paper challenges their origin! And these aren't all NASA employees, either. We've loaned samples to scientists in dozens of countries [who have no reason to cooperate in any hoax]."
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... st23feb_2/
Now, you can claim that Mr. McKay is wrong, but my source of the post was spot on, regardless of how you undoubtedly will try to claim in some manner that NASA is an invalid source for information right before you refer us once again to Jarrah White’s site.

I will happily refer you to some of the peer reviewed journal articles on the Apollo program, which I will at your request, but I’m not sure it would benefit anyone if they wouldn’t read them after posting.


Dr. David McKay, Chief Scientist for Planetary Science and Exploration at NASA's Johnson Space Center (JSC). McKay is a member of the group that oversees the Lunar Sample Laboratory Facility at JSC where most of the Moon rocks are stored. "They differ from Earth rocks in many respects," he added.

"For example," explains Dr. Marc Norman, a lunar geologist at the University of Tasmania, "lunar samples have almost no water trapped in their crystal structure, and common substances such as clay minerals that are ubiquitous on Earth are totally absent in Moon rocks."


So Dr McKay is prone to exaggeration then? I doubt they've sent samples to 'thousands' of labs around the world, and given NASA's record of hiring shills I'm not inclined to take him as a reputable source of information.

Then we have a Dr Norman, a self-appointed 'expert' at the University of Tasmania, a part of the first world that is least likely to take part in space exploration directly.

He very 'scientifically' points out that many earth rocks contain clay -- as though hoaxers would have chosen a rock from the deserts of WA, Antarctica or elsewhere that contained clay? Hoaxing geos would have been very specific about the types of rocks they would select.

It's possible to pit samples collected on earth. Claims of rocks containing volcanic glass material being broken down by 'water' anywhere they occur in the world are suspect.

Then we're back to Dr Mackay again. 'Trust me, I have stuff in my office'.

841 pounds? Really? Where is the confirmation of that? helluva payload, and not one technical problem on 6 missions, discounting one supposed oxygen tank rupture.

That source also tries to discredit the 'flag waving' -- when in fact there is footage of the flag waving when an astronaut walks past 2 feet away, nothing to do with unfurling etc.

There's a few possibilities here according to a fair assessment of the totality of the evidence. 1) astronauts really went and came back with 'hundreds' (?) of pounds or some quantity of moon rocks, but loads of video footage and stills have been demonstrably faked for some reason -- in fact, all surface footage, and all or most travelling footage; 2) one or maybe more missions succeeded, but many were faked to save money and reduce risk; 3) an unmanned probe/rover has managed to recover some quantity of moon rocks on a clandestine mission and return them to earth ; 4) they're all recovered from earth somewhere and the whole thing was a fake.

based on the need to fake footage, and an array of other evidence and eyewitness accounts, 1) is really therefore highly unlikely, and it's necessary to consider the methods by which moon rocks were faked, question the claims of quantity and number of labs and scientists, etc. In other words, where are the research papers, that have not been faked by geo insiders. 2), 3) and 4) are still possibilities.
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Re: Moon Landing Hoax - Evidence, Logic and Common Sense

Postby SydneyPSIder » 14 Dec 2012, 15:43

really? wrote:Syd recalls another former member known as indigochild. A person that wholly believed Geller used PK to move objects; a compass in this case. Professorwag,et al and I tried debating with him. To demonstrate Geller using a bit of trickery with a magnet one of us pulled up a video from Youtube demonstrating Geller using something that now moved a compass needle. We pointed out where in the video Geller attached the magnet to his hand. No matter what we said, Indogochild refused to consider for a moment they might be wrong. They preferred their facts instead.

Arouet, you have the patients of a saint. It's pointless trying to talk to and with syd.

P.S. I see some are have a grand time with Rationalwiki.

haha, yep, yep, that must be what it is. Another attempt to discredit and distract via invalid means. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for believable evidence.
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Re: Moon Landing Hoax - Evidence, Logic and Common Sense

Postby Arouet » 14 Dec 2012, 17:08

SydneyPSIder wrote:yes, although it appears Dr James van Allen and other 'experts' suddenly changed their tune when they went on the NASA payroll. I assume you will be able to head this concern off as part of your brilliant research effort.


Van Allen worked with NASA well before the 1961 article cited by White (he was part of the Explorer project) and worked for the navy going back to WWII.

(http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/Histo ... allen.html)

Can you elaborate on when you think this "sudden change" took place?

Also: could I have your thoughts on my posts about the radiation question and whether you think White addressed the questions raised by the Clavius article?
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Re: Moon Landing Hoax - Evidence, Logic and Common Sense

Postby ProfWag » 14 Dec 2012, 21:54

SydneyPSIder wrote:yes, although it appears Dr James van Allen and other 'experts' suddenly changed their tune when they went on the NASA payroll. I assume you will be able to head this concern off as part of your brilliant research effort.

So now we have to start another conspiracy theory if the evidence doesn't point to what you believe. Ya know, everything that has ever happened can be modified if we continue to make up things to fit what doesn't follow our beliefs. Unless new evidence can be produced that contradicts that we actually went to the moon, I think it's time to move on. Remote viewing, anybody?
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Re: Moon Landing Hoax - Evidence, Logic and Common Sense

Postby really? » 14 Dec 2012, 21:58

SydneyPSIder wrote:
really? wrote:Syd recalls another former member known as indigochild. A person that wholly believed Geller used PK to move objects; a compass in this case. Professorwag,et al and I tried debating with him. To demonstrate Geller using a bit of trickery with a magnet one of us pulled up a video from Youtube demonstrating Geller using something that now moved a compass needle. We pointed out where in the video Geller attached the magnet to his hand. No matter what we said, Indogochild refused to consider for a moment they might be wrong. They preferred their facts instead.

Arouet, you have the patients of a saint. It's pointless trying to talk to and with syd.

P.S. I see some are have a grand time with Rationalwiki.

haha, yep, yep, that must be what it is. Another attempt to discredit and distract via invalid means. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for believable evidence.


Trying to talk some sense into you is a waste of time.
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Re: Moon Landing Hoax - Evidence, Logic and Common Sense

Postby really? » 14 Dec 2012, 22:04

SydneyPSIder wrote:yes, although it appears Dr James van Allen and other 'experts' suddenly changed their tune when they went on the NASA payroll. I assume you will be able to head this concern off as part of your brilliant research effort.

ProfWag wrote:So now we have to start another conspiracy theory if the evidence doesn't point to what you believe. Ya know, everything that has ever happened can be modified if we continue to make up things to fit what doesn't follow our beliefs. Unless new evidence can be produced that contradicts that we actually went to the moon, I think it's time to move on. Remote viewing, anybody?


This is how ct'ers keep cts alive. By continually claiming the only truth is their truth.
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Re: Moon Landing Hoax - Evidence, Logic and Common Sense

Postby NinjaPuppy » 14 Dec 2012, 22:31

If y'all want to debate each other on a personal level, please take it here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2636
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Re: Moon Landing Hoax - Evidence, Logic and Common Sense

Postby SydneyPSIder » 15 Dec 2012, 20:18

ProfWag wrote:
SydneyPSIder wrote:yes, although it appears Dr James van Allen and other 'experts' suddenly changed their tune when they went on the NASA payroll. I assume you will be able to head this concern off as part of your brilliant research effort.

So now we have to start another conspiracy theory if the evidence doesn't point to what you believe. Ya know, everything that has ever happened can be modified if we continue to make up things to fit what doesn't follow our beliefs. Unless new evidence can be produced that contradicts that we actually went to the moon, I think it's time to move on. Remote viewing, anybody?

So, no convincing evidence? Didn't think so. Back to 9/11 topics I suppose.
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Re: Moon Landing Hoax - Evidence, Logic and Common Sense

Postby Arouet » 15 Dec 2012, 21:09

SydneyPSIder wrote:So, no convincing evidence? Didn't think so. Back to 9/11 topics I suppose.


Well, maybe you can respond to my posts on the radiation issue? Thought we were going to try and work this one out?
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Re: Moon Landing Hoax - Evidence, Logic and Common Sense

Postby The23rdman » 16 Dec 2012, 18:09

Interesting discussion everyone despite the emotionally charged posting and circular arguments.

I consider my self a true zetetic and never jump to conclusions because I never expect to have all the available information. The very best we can do is work on probabilities and allow ourselves to be open to information from all directions. The problem, as I see it, with discussions like this - and all others here - is that it is human nature to defend a position and, more importantly, to make emotional decisions, vest some of ourselves into them and then become attached to them as part of us. Attack our pet theory and you attack us. This happens on both sides of the debate.

anyway, I just wanted to throw a little sanity into the discussion and say that the only way to truly find peace is to remain open like a sponge and recognise truth is probably beyond our little domesticated monkey minds. ;)
If you think you know what's going on you're probably full of shit - Robert Anton Wilson
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Re: Moon Landing Hoax - Evidence, Logic and Common Sense

Postby NinjaPuppy » 16 Dec 2012, 19:40

The23rdman wrote:Interesting discussion everyone despite the emotionally charged posting and circular arguments.

I consider my self a true zetetic and never jump to conclusions because I never expect to have all the available information. The very best we can do is work on probabilities and allow ourselves to be open to information from all directions. The problem, as I see it, with discussions like this - and all others here - is that it is human nature to defend a position and, more importantly, to make emotional decisions, vest some of ourselves into them and then become attached to them as part of us. Attack our pet theory and you attack us. This happens on both sides of the debate.

anyway, I just wanted to throw a little sanity into the discussion and say that the only way to truly find peace is to remain open like a sponge and recognise truth is probably beyond our little domesticated monkey minds. ;)

BRAVO!

And welcome. I do hope that you will stick around.
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Re: Moon Landing Hoax - Evidence, Logic and Common Sense

Postby The23rdman » 16 Dec 2012, 20:02

I'm sure I'll stick around for a while. ;)
If you think you know what's going on you're probably full of shit - Robert Anton Wilson
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Re: Moon Landing Hoax - Evidence, Logic and Common Sense

Postby NinjaPuppy » 16 Dec 2012, 20:17

The23rdman wrote:I'm sure I'll stick around for a while. ;)

Oh goody! Why not do up a little personal introduction in the 'Introduce Yourself' section. Granted, that topic has been basically used by spammers and one shot wonders but what the heck, give it a go.

That goes for all you newbies too. Let us know more about you and your position on some of the topics.
viewforum.php?f=13
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