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Re: Duhbunker Questions? Can thermite cut horizontally? YES!

PostPosted: 25 Apr 2012, 04:41
by cecil1
What is the governments position on this topic?

Would you consider the governments position on this official?

If the government is not the official in this situation who is? The media? You?

If there is no official story then justify starting wars and legislating acts over this please... thanks.

Also can you please explain president bushes words about terrorists on national television? I guess he's not official enough for ya huh?

Re: Duhbunker Questions? Can thermite cut horizontally? YES!

PostPosted: 25 Apr 2012, 04:45
by cecil1
And yes the president is an official of the united states corporation.

Re: Duhbunker Questions? Can thermite cut horizontally? YES!

PostPosted: 25 Apr 2012, 04:59
by Arouet
cecil1 wrote:And yes the president is an official of the united states corporation.


You seem to be putting a lot of import on the particular legal construct that is a country. But you haven't really made an argument.

Re: Duhbunker Questions? Can thermite cut horizontally? YES!

PostPosted: 25 Apr 2012, 06:08
by cecil1
You mean corporation.

Re: Duhbunker Questions? Can thermite cut horizontally? YES!

PostPosted: 25 Apr 2012, 06:11
by cecil1
If you were to say that to not trust bad moral ethics is not a valid arguement..
then by all means consider my statements non reasonable.

Mind if i eat your baby?
reasonable by your account.

Re: Duhbunker Questions? Can thermite cut horizontally? YES!

PostPosted: 25 Apr 2012, 09:59
by Arouet
cecil1 wrote:If you were to say that to not trust bad moral ethics is not a valid arguement..
then by all means consider my statements non reasonable.

Mind if i eat your baby?
reasonable by your account.


But you haven't said what your problem with the country being technically defined as a corporation. It is a legal construct. You seem to have an issue with it, but you haven't made clear what that is and why you think its immoral.

Re: Duhbunker Questions? Can thermite cut horizontally? YES!

PostPosted: 25 Apr 2012, 21:10
by ProfWag
cecil1 wrote:What is the governments position on this topic?


I give up. What is it and how do you know that?

Re: Duhbunker Questions? Can thermite cut horizontally? YES!

PostPosted: 25 Apr 2012, 23:03
by cecil1
Arouet wrote:
cecil1 wrote:If you were to say that to not trust bad moral ethics is not a valid arguement..
then by all means consider my statements non reasonable.

Mind if i eat your baby?
reasonable by your account.


But you haven't said what your problem with the country being technically defined as a corporation. It is a legal construct. You seem to have an issue with it, but you haven't made clear what that is and why you think its immoral.


That is not the focus of my concern, it is a part of it however. I will explain.
The reason a country/corp is immoral is because corps have shareholders and board of directors, this means that you are not an owner of your country, public property is not your property to claim use of anymore, it is determined by corp by-laws,(statutes and acts) as well as voting, if you can please explain to me how voting for a new president on the board of directors changes the shareholders voting rights in the corporation in "anyway" i'll be the first into a voting booth! There are more but these are some major issues to deal with.

The focus of my concern is bad moral ethics, it is non reasonable to say that faulty moral ethics is nothing to be concerned about especially regarding the responsibility of of running a "country". You stated I haven't really raised an arguement when raising this point, I subscribe to you that regarding moral ethics it most certainly does, unless you are suggesting intelligent beings should deeply trust entities that do not know love? Nay, we must remain skeptical of people or ideas and concepts that seek to entangle us within the lies and deception of bad moral ethics. The beginning to bad moral ethics is a lie. This is why the truth is such a lofty glowing symbol of justice, good morals, ethics and responsibility and of course AUTHORITY.

Re: Duhbunker Questions? Can thermite cut horizontally? YES!

PostPosted: 25 Apr 2012, 23:44
by ProfWag
cecil1 wrote:That is not the focus of my concern, it is a part of it however. I will explain.
The reason a country/corp is immoral is because corps have shareholders and board of directors, this means that you are not an owner of your country, public property is not your property to claim use of anymore, it is determined by corp by-laws,(statutes and acts) as well as voting, if you can please explain to me how voting for a new president on the board of directors changes the shareholders voting rights in the corporation in "anyway" i'll be the first into a voting booth! There are more but these are some major issues to deal with.


Please forgive me for interfering on you and arouet's discussion, but I'm trying to understand just what you're concern/stance is.
First of all, in the U.S., you don't vote for the President. (Let me know if you need an explanation of our Electoral College.)
Second, if I understand you correctly, the "shareholders" as you say, are the American People, and the "board of directors" are the elected congressmen/women. The "board of directors" are voted for by the "shareholders." So, I'm not sure what you're talking about as far as not going to the voting booth. It's cool to me if you don't want to case a vote for the President (I don't usually), but I do want my voice expressed to the elected members of the Senate and House. Not that they listen, mind you, but that's a different subject...

Re: Duhbunker Questions? Can thermite cut horizontally? YES!

PostPosted: 26 Apr 2012, 01:31
by cecil1
ProfWag wrote:
cecil1 wrote:That is not the focus of my concern, it is a part of it however. I will explain.
The reason a country/corp is immoral is because corps have shareholders and board of directors, this means that you are not an owner of your country, public property is not your property to claim use of anymore, it is determined by corp by-laws,(statutes and acts) as well as voting, if you can please explain to me how voting for a new president on the board of directors changes the shareholders voting rights in the corporation in "anyway" i'll be the first into a voting booth! There are more but these are some major issues to deal with.


Please forgive me for interfering on you and arouet's discussion, but I'm trying to understand just what you're concern/stance is.
First of all, in the U.S., you don't vote for the President. (Let me know if you need an explanation of our Electoral College.)
Second, if I understand you correctly, the "shareholders" as you say, are the American People, and the "board of directors" are the elected congressmen/women. The "board of directors" are voted for by the "shareholders." So, I'm not sure what you're talking about as far as not going to the voting booth. It's cool to me if you don't want to case a vote for the President (I don't usually), but I do want my voice expressed to the elected members of the Senate and House. Not that they listen, mind you, but that's a different subject...


In order to be a shareholder one must have a shareholders certificate and corporations use securities as the basis for owning shares. (incorporation requires a security) If you are not a registered shareholder of those securities then you are not a shareholder. Can you point out the CIK key number of your registered security please, it would be helpful if you knew the filing number for your registered security as well. You are a shareholder of the UNITED STATES after all aren't you?
http://www.sec.gov/edgar/searchedgar/companysearch.html <------------------- input it here.


ProfWag wrote:First of all, in the U.S., you don't vote for the President.


ProfWag wrote:It's cool to me if you don't want to case a vote for the President (I don't usually),


So sometimes you do but you can't or you don't? That makes no sense to me I apologize I don't understand what you're saying here.

ProfWag wrote:but I do want my voice expressed to the elected members of the Senate and House. Not that they listen, mind you, but that's a different subject


No, this is exactly the subject, they don't listen to you because you have no shareholders voting rights.

Re: Duhbunker Questions? Can thermite cut horizontally? YES!

PostPosted: 26 Apr 2012, 03:53
by ProfWag
cecil1 wrote:
ProfWag wrote:First of all, in the U.S., you don't vote for the President.


ProfWag wrote:It's cool to me if you don't want to case a vote for the President (I don't usually),


So sometimes you do but you can't or you don't? That makes no sense to me I apologize I don't understand what you're saying here.

Oh, thanks for pointing that out. Technically, you cast a vote for the president, but all it really does is show your opinion. The President is elected by the Electoral College which is made up of individuals, not votes. So, instead of using the word "vote," I should have said it's cool if you don't want to put a mark next to a Presidential Candidate's name, but it doesn't amount to much. The Electoral College may vote the way you want them to, but they don't have to.
ProfWag wrote:but I do want my voice expressed to the elected members of the Senate and House. Not that they listen, mind you, but that's a different subject


No, this is exactly the subject, they don't listen to you because you have no shareholders voting rights.

I disagree. If I don't feel I am being properly represented, I cast a vote to remove the Comgressman/woman who is doing the voting for me. Similar to what I would do as a shareholder in one of the companies I own stock in.

Re: Duhbunker Questions? Can thermite cut horizontally? YES!

PostPosted: 26 Apr 2012, 04:29
by Arouet
cecil1 wrote:That is not the focus of my concern, it is a part of it however. I will explain.
The reason a country/corp is immoral is because corps have shareholders and board of directors, this means that you are not an owner of your country, public property is not your property to claim use of anymore, it is determined by corp by-laws,(statutes and acts) as well as voting, if you can please explain to me how voting for a new president on the board of directors changes the shareholders voting rights in the corporation in "anyway" i'll be the first into a voting booth! There are more but these are some major issues to deal with.


I'm not expert in this type of law but I think its a different type of corporation. You are talking about a particular legal contruct that officially creates the country. It's not a corporation like IBM is a corporation. There are no shareholders or board of directors for Canada.

The focus of my concern is bad moral ethics, it is non reasonable to say that faulty moral ethics is nothing to be concerned about especially regarding the responsibility of of running a "country". You stated I haven't really raised an arguement when raising this point, I subscribe to you that regarding moral ethics it most certainly does, unless you are suggesting intelligent beings should deeply trust entities that do not know love? Nay, we must remain skeptical of people or ideas and concepts that seek to entangle us within the lies and deception of bad moral ethics. The beginning to bad moral ethics is a lie. This is why the truth is such a lofty glowing symbol of justice, good morals, ethics and responsibility and of course AUTHORITY.


But you haven't established why legally constructing the country in this way is immoral, or bad, or a lie?

You also haven't justified your claim that these acts establish "legal slavery". Can you give a practical example of what you mean?

Re: Duhbunker Questions? Can thermite cut horizontally? YES!

PostPosted: 26 Apr 2012, 21:07
by cecil1
ProfWag wrote:
cecil1 wrote:
ProfWag wrote:First of all, in the U.S., you don't vote for the President.


ProfWag wrote:It's cool to me if you don't want to case a vote for the President (I don't usually),


So sometimes you do but you can't or you don't? That makes no sense to me I apologize I don't understand what you're saying here.

Oh, thanks for pointing that out. Technically, you cast a vote for the president, but all it really does is show your opinion. The President is elected by the Electoral College which is made up of individuals, not votes. So, instead of using the word "vote," I should have said it's cool if you don't want to put a mark next to a Presidential Candidate's name, but it doesn't amount to much. The Electoral College may vote the way you want them to, but they don't have to.
ProfWag wrote:but I do want my voice expressed to the elected members of the Senate and House. Not that they listen, mind you, but that's a different subject


No, this is exactly the subject, they don't listen to you because you have no shareholders voting rights.

I disagree. If I don't feel I am being properly represented, I cast a vote to remove the Comgressman/woman who is doing the voting for me. Similar to what I would do as a shareholder in one of the companies I own stock in.


I don't understand your logic here, if you're a shareholder of UNITED STATES how come your elected candidates don't listen to you? Shareholders have overall voting rights in companies/corps.

Re: Duhbunker Questions? Can thermite cut horizontally? YES!

PostPosted: 26 Apr 2012, 21:12
by cecil1
Arouet wrote:
cecil1 wrote:That is not the focus of my concern, it is a part of it however. I will explain.
The reason a country/corp is immoral is because corps have shareholders and board of directors, this means that you are not an owner of your country, public property is not your property to claim use of anymore, it is determined by corp by-laws,(statutes and acts) as well as voting, if you can please explain to me how voting for a new president on the board of directors changes the shareholders voting rights in the corporation in "anyway" i'll be the first into a voting booth! There are more but these are some major issues to deal with.


I'm not expert in this type of law but I think its a different type of corporation. You are talking about a particular legal contruct that officially creates the country. It's not a corporation like IBM is a corporation. There are no shareholders or board of directors for Canada.

The focus of my concern is bad moral ethics, it is non reasonable to say that faulty moral ethics is nothing to be concerned about especially regarding the responsibility of of running a "country". You stated I haven't really raised an arguement when raising this point, I subscribe to you that regarding moral ethics it most certainly does, unless you are suggesting intelligent beings should deeply trust entities that do not know love? Nay, we must remain skeptical of people or ideas and concepts that seek to entangle us within the lies and deception of bad moral ethics. The beginning to bad moral ethics is a lie. This is why the truth is such a lofty glowing symbol of justice, good morals, ethics and responsibility and of course AUTHORITY.


But you haven't established why legally constructing the country in this way is immoral, or bad, or a lie?

You also haven't justified your claim that these acts establish "legal slavery". Can you give a practical example of what you mean?


I disagree with your first comment, Read the ownership act where it states who may apply for their canadian ownership rate and status. Your ownership rate is divided into different classes of shares.

As far as immoral, what is it called when someone else owns your person?

Re: Duhbunker Questions? Can thermite cut horizontally? YES!

PostPosted: 26 Apr 2012, 21:50
by ProfWag
cecil1 wrote:I don't understand your logic here, if you're a shareholder of UNITED STATES how come your elected candidates don't listen to you? Shareholders have overall voting rights in companies/corps.

Perhaps you don't understand what a shareholder is cecil. The American public are not shareholders, per se', but more equivalent to stockholders--though neither term is technically correct.