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Expert Pilots say Flight 77 maneuvers impossible on 9/11

Discuss Conspiracies and Cover Ups - e.g. 9/11 Truth, JFK Assassination, New World Order, Roswell, Moon Hoax, Secret Societies, etc. whatever conspiracy floats your boat.

Re: Expert Pilots say Flight 77 maneuvers impossible on 9/11

Postby SydneyPSIder » 04 Oct 2012, 09:57

Arouet wrote:I don't care which side of the issue you're on - when it comes to this enormously complex case - with arguments and evidence on all sides that fill volumes - there is no clear evidence.

Evidence of around 8 eyewitnesses with nothing to hide on those docos not good enough for you? There is a conspicuous *lack of evidence* of jetliner crashes at 3 of the sites... that is evidence in itself of foul play. Then the evidence of the collapsed buildings was promptly cleared and disposed of, rather than allowing metallurgical analysis. Apparently it's OK if the authorities dispose of useful evidence, it's illegal for everyone else.
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Re: Expert Pilots say Flight 77 maneuvers impossible on 9/11

Postby Arouet » 04 Oct 2012, 11:57

If you don't think unravelling 9/11 has been an extremely complex analysis then I'm not sure what you WOULD consider complex!
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Re: Expert Pilots say Flight 77 maneuvers impossible on 9/11

Postby SydneyPSIder » 04 Oct 2012, 12:13

Arouet wrote:If you don't think unravelling 9/11 has been an extremely complex analysis then I'm not sure what you WOULD consider complex!

It's a little complex -- particularly detecting all the coverups by the FBI... I had no idea they were the new US Stasi, who were so reviled by 'freedom loving countries' everywhere -- just the domestic version of the CIA dirty tricks and black ops dept. And to think we used to suggest there was a lack of freedom and transparency in Eastern bloc countries...
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Re: Expert Pilots say Flight 77 maneuvers impossible on 9/11

Postby Misha » 04 Oct 2012, 12:19

SydneyPSIder wrote:
Arouet wrote:I don't care which side of the issue you're on - when it comes to this enormously complex case - with arguments and evidence on all sides that fill volumes - there is no clear evidence.

Evidence of around 8 eyewitnesses with nothing to hide on those docos not good enough for you? There is a conspicuous *lack of evidence* of jetliner crashes at 3 of the sites... that is evidence in itself of foul play. Then the evidence of the collapsed buildings was promptly cleared and disposed of, rather than allowing metallurgical analysis. Apparently it's OK if the authorities dispose of useful evidence, it's illegal for everyone else.


Point well made with "evidence." And that's just it. The 9/11 "crime scene" was tampered with. Even the feds went after the mob for hijacking some of the steel which was supposed to be brought to the Fresh Kills sight. Talk about double tampering! Subsequently, all debris which was transported from the sight had GPS devices attached to the loads. Speaking of tampering with the evidence. I posted this on another thread. Again, I do not mean to muddy the thread. I am merely showing an example of foul play with evidence.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/16/us/re ... whitehurst
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Re: Expert Pilots say Flight 77 maneuvers impossible on 9/11

Postby ProfWag » 04 Oct 2012, 23:57

SydneyPSIder wrote:http://vimeo.com/4777716 at 1:11:43 onwards, and further evasiveness in the other two links.

Oh, I see, it's 'play dumb' time, sorry, I'm over it, you're a pseudosceptic at best, and a directly involved part of the cover-up at worst. The entire video in itself has a ton of eyewitnesses and circumstantial evidence that completely negates and disproves the 'official' story. Amazing that for a 'sceptic' you so willingly go along with what is clearly a sham. Definition of a pseudosceptic, I suppose. Or worse.

"Play dumb" with what? You told me to check out Lloyd's confession at a certain mark in a video then didn't provide the link to the video or at least I wasn't sure which video you wanted me to view. How is that playing dumb?
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Re: Expert Pilots say Flight 77 maneuvers impossible on 9/11

Postby ProfWag » 05 Oct 2012, 00:00

Misha wrote:Point well made with "evidence." And that's just it. The 9/11 "crime scene" was tampered with. Even the feds went after the mob for hijacking some of the steel which was supposed to be brought to the Fresh Kills sight. Talk about double tampering! Subsequently, all debris which was transported from the sight had GPS devices attached to the loads. Speaking of tampering with the evidence. I posted this on another thread. Again, I do not mean to muddy the thread. I am merely showing an example of foul play with evidence.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/16/us/re ... whitehurst

Your points may or may not be true, but either way, they do not mean that 19 terrorist hijackers didn't fly planes into buildings.
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Re: Expert Pilots say Flight 77 maneuvers impossible on 9/11

Postby ProfWag » 05 Oct 2012, 00:34

SydneyPSIder wrote:
ProfWag wrote:
SydneyPSIder wrote: There are plenty of accounts and theories out there of what happened to Flight 77, you should go and look them up.

On another note, I broke a bone in my hand over the weekend playing tennis and I've been required to wear a brace which makes it extremely difficult to type. As such, my posts will be less frequent and shorter for the next few weeks. I apologize in advance for letting the debate slip a bit.

Luckily you won't need to type to click on and watch the vimeo.

Have a look at Lloyde England's confession at 1:11:43 onwards, and tell me this wasn't a set up. His wife's in the FBI, his car seems to have had the windscreen smashed with a hammer with no other damage to the body, and he is confessing it's 'bigger than him, and he's been dragged into it'.

If that's not an FBI stooge recanting, 'ProfWag', you're clearly in the FBI or CIA or allied outfit participating in the cover up.

Oh, here's another one: http://vimeo.com/13968187
And another: http://vimeo.com/4067633

I watched it and my feeling is, and I'm pretty sure it's the same feeling that most people would have after watching him from 1:10:00 and on, is---"seriously?" You think he's capable of hiding something? Seriously? C'mon, really?
Amazing...
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Re: Expert Pilots say Flight 77 maneuvers impossible on 9/11

Postby Misha » 05 Oct 2012, 00:45

ProfWag wrote:
Misha wrote:Point well made with "evidence." And that's just it. The 9/11 "crime scene" was tampered with. Even the feds went after the mob for hijacking some of the steel which was supposed to be brought to the Fresh Kills sight. Talk about double tampering! Subsequently, all debris which was transported from the sight had GPS devices attached to the loads. Speaking of tampering with the evidence. I posted this on another thread. Again, I do not mean to muddy the thread. I am merely showing an example of foul play with evidence.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/16/us/re ... whitehurst

Your points may or may not be true, but either way, they do not mean that 19 terrorist hijackers didn't fly planes into buildings.


ProWag,

Interesting that I went looking for the article within the NY Post archives and it would not come up. However, I found a site that at least proves the article was written. Also, NYPD cops were talking about this too. A NYPD detective who I have known for years even discussed this with me. If you find any other articles other than the NY Post on this topic let us know. Thanks.

http://letsrollforums.com/did-250-tons- ... 662f7&

Make sure you hit the link right below the picture for corroboration.
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Re: Expert Pilots say Flight 77 maneuvers impossible on 9/11

Postby ProfWag » 05 Oct 2012, 01:19

Misha wrote:
ProfWag wrote:
Misha wrote:Point well made with "evidence." And that's just it. The 9/11 "crime scene" was tampered with. Even the feds went after the mob for hijacking some of the steel which was supposed to be brought to the Fresh Kills sight. Talk about double tampering! Subsequently, all debris which was transported from the sight had GPS devices attached to the loads. Speaking of tampering with the evidence. I posted this on another thread. Again, I do not mean to muddy the thread. I am merely showing an example of foul play with evidence.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/16/us/re ... whitehurst

Your points may or may not be true, but either way, they do not mean that 19 terrorist hijackers didn't fly planes into buildings.


ProWag,

Interesting that I went looking for the article within the NY Post archives and it would not come up. However, I found a site that at least proves the article was written. Also, NYPD cops were talking about this too. A NYPD detective who I have known for years even discussed this with me. If you find any other articles other than the NY Post on this topic let us know. Thanks.

http://letsrollforums.com/did-250-tons- ... 662f7&

Make sure you hit the link right below the picture for corroboration.

If I understand correctly, your article that you linked to from the NY Post wouldn't open for you? It opened for me and I saw it was from 1997 where they state that the FBI crime lab did crappy work four years before 9/11. I don't disagree with the article, but still don't see what it has to do with 19 terrorist hijackers flying planes into buildings. Remember, that's what we are REALLY talking about. You (as in anyone) can show any kind of circumstantial evidence you want, but what we really shoukld be looking for is evidence that 19 terrorist hijackers did not fly planes into buildings. Perhaps we can put all our chips on Lloyd at the Pentagon, but personally, I wouldn't hire him as a taxi driver to take me to my neighbor's house...
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Re: Expert Pilots say Flight 77 maneuvers impossible on 9/11

Postby NinjaPuppy » 05 Oct 2012, 01:19

Here's what the link bought me to:

REPORT CRITICIZES SCIENTIFIC TESTING AT F.B.I. CRIME LAB
By DAVID JOHNSTON
Published: April 16, 1997

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The Justice Department's inspector general said today that the Federal Bureau of Investigation's renowned crime laboratory was riddled with flawed scientific practices that had potentially tainted dozens of criminal cases, including the bombings of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City and the World Trade Center in New York.

The inspector general, Michael R. Bromwich, announced his findings after an 18-month investigation that he said had uncovered ''extremely serious and significant problems'' at a laboratory that for more than six decades, since its founding by J. Edgar Hoover in 1932, has been a symbol of the F.B.I.'s cutting-edge scientific sleuthing.

The investigation found that the laboratory's explosives, chemistry-toxicology and materials analysis units were rife with substandard performance that had forced F.B.I. officials to review several hundred past and current cases to determine how many might have been jeopardized by faulty work.

The findings are expected to give added impetus to defense lawyers in scores of cases, including the defense in the Oklahoma City bombing case, which served notice in pretrial hearings months ago that it intended to challenge the integrity of the F.B.I. investigation and analysis of physical evidence in the case.
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Re: Expert Pilots say Flight 77 maneuvers impossible on 9/11

Postby Misha » 05 Oct 2012, 05:34

ProfWag wrote:

"If I understand correctly, your article that you linked to from the NY Post wouldn't open for you? It opened for me and I saw it was from 1997 where they state that the FBI crime lab did crappy work four years before 9/11."

It is not the NY Times article that I could not open. I could not retrieve this: http://letsrollforums.com/did-250-tons- ... 662f7&

This is in relation to steel being stolen by the mob.
Last edited by Misha on 05 Oct 2012, 07:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Expert Pilots say Flight 77 maneuvers impossible on 9/11

Postby Misha » 05 Oct 2012, 05:49

If I understand correctly, your article that you linked to from the NY Post wouldn't open for you? It opened for me and I saw it was from 1997 where they state that the FBI crime lab did crappy work four years before 9/11. I don't disagree with the article, but still don't see what it has to do with 19 terrorist hijackers flying planes into buildings. Remember, that's what we are REALLY talking about. You (as in anyone) can show any kind of circumstantial evidence you want, but what we really shoukld be looking for is evidence that 19 terrorist hijackers did not fly planes into buildings. Perhaps we can put all our chips on Lloyd at the Pentagon, but personally, I wouldn't hire him as a taxi driver to take me to my neighbor's house...


ProfWag,

How do I get you off the baseline and at the net, again? Clearly, science is at default with the Oklahoma bombing. Could we at least reason that science was in default with 9/11? Does not the Oklahoma bombing give us precedent that science can be tainted and a desired outcome manipulated to comport with the government's version of what happened. C'mon, ProfWag. We all need to be good detectives here.
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Re: Expert Pilots say Flight 77 maneuvers impossible on 9/11

Postby SydneyPSIder » 05 Oct 2012, 08:15

ProfWag wrote:I watched it and my feeling is, and I'm pretty sure it's the same feeling that most people would have after watching him from 1:10:00 and on, is---"seriously?" You think he's capable of hiding something? Seriously? C'mon, really?
Amazing...

Yes, wag, but your feelings are always classic pseudosceptic ones, and are therefore scientifically invalid. I see you're going to great lengths to discredit evidence concerning the guy who was used as a stooge by just attacking the guy, which is utterly irrelevant to the evidence being presented.

The compromised testimony and pictorial evidence of Lloyde England blows a huge hole in the official story when put together with numerous eyewitness accounts of a different trajectory of a plane observed moving towards the Pentagon. The official pictures don't jibe with eyewitness testimony. Accounts of eyewitnesses throughout the events of 9/11 have been ignored by the offical enquiry for convenience.

I don't think a few obfuscating pseudosceptics on this site are doing much to cast any real light on the matter, or undermine the legitimate alternative investigation which is making significantly different findings from the official account of events.
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Re: Expert Pilots say Flight 77 maneuvers impossible on 9/11

Postby ProfWag » 05 Oct 2012, 18:01

SydneyPSIder wrote:Yes, wag, but your feelings are always classic pseudosceptic ones, and are therefore scientifically invalid. I see you're going to great lengths to discredit evidence concerning the guy who was used as a stooge by just attacking the guy, which is utterly irrelevant to the evidence being presented.

The compromised testimony and pictorial evidence of Lloyde England blows a huge hole in the official story when put together with numerous eyewitness accounts of a different trajectory of a plane observed moving towards the Pentagon. The official pictures don't jibe with eyewitness testimony. Accounts of eyewitnesses throughout the events of 9/11 have been ignored by the offical enquiry for convenience.

I don't think a few obfuscating pseudosceptics on this site are doing much to cast any real light on the matter, or undermine the legitimate alternative investigation which is making significantly different findings from the official account of events.

Are you sure that we watched the same video? His "secretly taped" conversation from the backseat was very, very heavily edited. How do you know he was even talking about 9/11? You don't. That video you referenced cannot in any way, shape, or form cannot even be presentedd as evidence much less blowing a "huge hole in the official story."
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Re: Expert Pilots say Flight 77 maneuvers impossible on 9/11

Postby ProfWag » 05 Oct 2012, 18:14

Misha wrote:
ProfWag,

How do I get you off the baseline and at the net, again? Clearly, science is at default with the Oklahoma bombing. Could we at least reason that science was in default with 9/11? Does not the Oklahoma bombing give us precedent that science can be tainted and a desired outcome manipulated to comport with the government's version of what happened. C'mon, ProfWag. We all need to be good detectives here.

Since the last time I was at the net, I broke my hand, I doubt you'll get me back there any time soon... :-)

Yes, science can be tainted. Take OJ and his glove. I still believe he was a murderer even though the "glove didn't fit so they had to aquit."
Just because there are shoddy investigators and questionable crime labs do not mean that Timothy Mcveigh was not responsible for OKC or that 19 terrorist hijackers were not responsible for the deaths of 3,000 people on 9/11. The mountain of evidence, the eye witnesses, the confessions of Al Qaeda, and the massive number of people who would have had to have been in on any other conspiracy all point to terrorists being responsible for 9/11.
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