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ProfWag, a disturbing video that you can't defend

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ProfWag, a disturbing video that you can't defend

Postby Scepcop » 18 Apr 2010, 00:23

There is a very eloquent speech by a woman at the end. Everyone should see this and face the truth they've been afraid of.

* This video has been removed out of respect for a particular forum member's personal feelings on the matter.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: ProfWag, a disturbing video that you can't defend

Postby ProfWag » 18 Apr 2010, 20:43

Scepcop, it appears you want to start a war with me. If that's the way you want it, then game on.
First, have you served any time over there? If not, then you have no right to spread propoganda. Did that lady at the end of the tape serve time? If not, then she has no right to spread propoganda.
There have been hundreds of thousands of soldiers who have spent time in the Middle East. There are some bad apples out of that group. Not sure what you want me to defend.
I've been there, I've lived it, I know the attitudes of the soldiers and their leaders. You are relying on anti-governmental propoganda bullshit.
I would recommend that if you have not served time in the military, then please remove this thread or I will come at your stupid posts with a vengence.
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Re: ProfWag, a disturbing video that you can't defend

Postby NinjaPuppy » 19 Apr 2010, 19:47

Since I have a weak stomach, I can't watch that video.
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Re: ProfWag, a disturbing video that you can't defend

Postby ciscop » 19 Apr 2010, 20:09

nobody can defend that
american soldiers are paid assasins
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: ProfWag, a disturbing video that you can't defend

Postby ProfWag » 20 Apr 2010, 01:27

For the record, I have politely asked that this thread be removed. I have yet to hear a rosponse, but am hoping that the administrator agrees that it really has little or nothing to do with debunking skeptics and inappropriate content for a forum such as this. I believe it crosses the line as to what a practical, professsional debate should be about. It shows the horrific actions of a few individuals and attempts to pass that off as what all soldiers do and how they behave.
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Re: ProfWag, a disturbing video that you can't defend

Postby tiger » 20 Apr 2010, 07:04

Let us see. History shows us that Scepcop is highly unlikely to come back to this thread.

He is the owner of the forum. So this video will not be removed. I would not be too worried. The video is in plenty of other places. None of them important. A search will find them.

So I do not understand why anyone would take this thread seriously. Yes it appears to be junk. Only suitable for the choir. So it can be ignored.

ProfWag, Scepcop is not asking you to defend the US army, he is asking you to defend the contents of the video. So unless you agree with the contents, which you do not...

I think the best way to combat people like Scepcop is to laugh.
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Re: ProfWag, a disturbing video that you can't defend

Postby ProfWag » 20 Apr 2010, 20:41

tiger wrote:Let us see. History shows us that Scepcop is highly unlikely to come back to this thread.

He is the owner of the forum. So this video will not be removed. I would not be too worried. The video is in plenty of other places. None of them important. A search will find them.

So I do not understand why anyone would take this thread seriously. Yes it appears to be junk. Only suitable for the choir. So it can be ignored.

ProfWag, Scepcop is not asking you to defend the US army, he is asking you to defend the contents of the video. So unless you agree with the contents, which you do not...

I think the best way to combat people like Scepcop is to laugh.

Thanks. I don't disagree with what you say. I'm very proud of my service to my country and am also proud of my comrades who have been there and are still there. I take postings like that very personally however, and find it difficult to just laugh off.
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Re: ProfWag, a disturbing video that you can't defend

Postby ciscop » 21 Apr 2010, 02:45

you were a pilot werent you?
what kind of plane did you ¨drive¨?
it´s got to be a godlike thing having that much power
i know ill need a paperbag to get into one of those things i get dizzy on the alice in wonderland´ teacups in disneyland

i dont wanna date you
but did you serve in Irak? Vietnam? Panama?

just asking
did you get to be in combat?

i met some mexican soldiers..
here they battle against the cartels
but the funny thing is they do talk about how many they got.. according to one he got 19, he said he was a sniper
which is kind of cool, cause i didnt know we mexicans had snipers.
i believe in USA you dont talk about killing somebody in the service
is something that is not polite to ask (if that is so, i am sorry i wont ask anymore)
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: ProfWag, a disturbing video that you can't defend

Postby ProfWag » 21 Apr 2010, 03:48

ciscop wrote:you were a pilot werent you?
what kind of plane did you ¨drive¨?
it´s got to be a godlike thing having that much power
i know ill need a paperbag to get into one of those things i get dizzy on the alice in wonderland´ teacups in disneyland

i dont wanna date you
but did you serve in Irak? Vietnam? Panama?

just asking
did you get to be in combat?

i met some mexican soldiers..
here they battle against the cartels
but the funny thing is they do talk about how many they got.. according to one he got 19, he said he was a sniper
which is kind of cool, cause i didnt know we mexicans had snipers.
i believe in USA you dont talk about killing somebody in the service
is something that is not polite to ask (if that is so, i am sorry i wont ask anymore)

Sorry to dissapoint, but although I was in the Air Force, I wasn't a pilot and I'm afraid my duty wasn't all the glamorous. I have service medals for both Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom (Afghanistan) and was "tax-free" for 8 months. I was based at Al Udeid, but made frequent trips to Baghdad and Kandohar. (Feel free to vomit if you've ever done a combat landing in a C-130...) My main mission during that time was Accountability--meaning I reported troop levels back to the Office of the Secretary of Defense on a daily basis of how many people, in each war-time specialty job, were in theater to include those coming and those departing. I was also responsbile for the Casualty Assistance Program which, essentially, I was the person whom the in-theater commanders notified when a troop was killed or injured and I had to notify the soldier's home commander of the specifics for the dreaded "service dress uniform march" to the family--within 4 hours. Although mortor rounds and small S2S missiles came at us often, and 2-3 hours of wearing the gas mask in 115 degree desert heat was not unusual, I never had the misfortune of firing my rifle nor did I personally witness anyone else, though I saw the results of our injured troops quite often and the reason I'm now an Athiest.
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Re: ProfWag, a disturbing video that you can't defend

Postby ciscop » 21 Apr 2010, 08:16

well the best thing is that
you got to come home safely
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: ProfWag, a disturbing video that you can't defend

Postby Scepcop » 21 Apr 2010, 14:45

ProfWag wrote:Scepcop, it appears you want to start a war with me. If that's the way you want it, then game on.
First, have you served any time over there? If not, then you have no right to spread propoganda. Did that lady at the end of the tape serve time? If not, then she has no right to spread propoganda.
There have been hundreds of thousands of soldiers who have spent time in the Middle East. There are some bad apples out of that group. Not sure what you want me to defend.
I've been there, I've lived it, I know the attitudes of the soldiers and their leaders. You are relying on anti-governmental propoganda bullshit.
I would recommend that if you have not served time in the military, then please remove this thread or I will come at your stupid posts with a vengence.
ProfWag


If it means that much to you personally, I'll remove the video out of respect for your feelings. You are a regular poster here and I respect that. Would you like me to delete this whole thread, or just remove the video link from the first post, so we can continue the discussion in this thread?

You miss the whole point though. Many soldiers and MILLIONS of Iraquis have died for a war that is only about oil, power, corporate control, and the establishment of military bases. This means your countrymen are dying for oil and power ProfWag! Shouldn't your anger be directed at the evil powers that started this senseless war?

Doesn't it anger you that American soldiers are dying and suffering like hell, for oil and power? Aren't you angry that they've been deceived?

I'm serious about this.

Where is your anger toward the Bush Administration, the military industrial complex, and the shadow network behind them that enacts the same policy regardless of which party is in power?

Shouldn't your anger be directed at them? They've killed millions in the name of power and oil. They are the worst and most evil people in the world.

Forget our philosophical disagreements for a moment. This is serious. VERY serious. Aren't you in the least bit pissed at these mass murderers?

Even ciscop admits that the US soldiers are dying and killing for the wrong reasons.

Where is your anger that millions died in the Vietnam War over lies?

In short, PEOPLE ARE DYING FOR NOTHING ProfWag! Where is YOUR ANGER in all that?!?!?!?!?
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: ProfWag, a disturbing video that you can't defend

Postby Scepcop » 21 Apr 2010, 14:47

Done. Out of respect for you ProfWag, I've removed the link to the video at the beginning of this thread.

I hope you can answer my questions honestly in my last post though, putting aside all our differences. This isn't about skepticism or conspiracies, it's about many people dying for nothing but power and greed, which is WRONG WRONG WRONG.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: ProfWag, a disturbing video that you can't defend

Postby Scepcop » 21 Apr 2010, 15:23

tiger wrote:Let us see. History shows us that Scepcop is highly unlikely to come back to this thread.

He is the owner of the forum. So this video will not be removed. I would not be too worried. The video is in plenty of other places. None of them important. A search will find them.

So I do not understand why anyone would take this thread seriously. Yes it appears to be junk. Only suitable for the choir. So it can be ignored.

ProfWag, Scepcop is not asking you to defend the US army, he is asking you to defend the contents of the video. So unless you agree with the contents, which you do not...

I think the best way to combat people like Scepcop is to laugh.


Laughing at valid points is a fool's way of dealing with truth.

You are right and wrong tiger. I would not have come back to this thread, except that ProfWag PMed me about it.

But it is not true that I won't remove a video. It depends. I may be arrogant sometimes, but I do have a heart and respect other people's personal feelings, especially those of a regular poster here. (After all, if you owned a diner, the opinions about the food of regular customers that patronize your diner everyday would carry more weight than than that of patrons who just visit once a year, right?)

But that doesn't mean that I'm going to remove every video that someone finds offensive. This has to be decided upon by a case by case basis.
“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: ProfWag, a disturbing video that you can't defend

Postby ciscop » 21 Apr 2010, 16:10

hey
excuse me
but i a just hate american politics
soldiers are nothing but the tools they use to control the world
soldiers do what they are told,
For every person who reads this valuable book there are hundreds of naïve souls who would prefer to have their spines tingled by a sensational but worthless potboiler by some hack journalist of the paranormal. You who now read these sentences join a small but wiser minority. Martin Gaardner (Psychology of the Psychic)
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Re: ProfWag, a disturbing video that you can't defend

Postby ProfWag » 21 Apr 2010, 21:14

First, I want to express my sincere appreciation for the removal of the video. I truly believe it was the right thing to do.
Next, concerning the reason we went to war or the numbers you have mentioned. I believe you are way off. Concerning Vietnam, roughly 60,000 Americans lost their lives between 1945 and 1975 in Vietnam. A staggering number but not quite "millions" as was expressed in the above post.
Concerning the Iraq War. It is impossible to determine how many Iraqi civilians have lost their lives. Again, however, I don't believe it's the "millions" as expressed above. Depending on which figure you want to use and which side of the fence you lean on can produce different numbers. However, one set of numbers appears to be the most accurate in my view. 10,000 Iraqi civilians have been inadvertantly killed at the hands of American and Allied Forces. During Saddam Hussein's reign, it has been estimated that he killed approximately 600,000 of his own civilians. Regardless of why we went to war, if those figures are accurate then our presence there, though costly in the lives of Iraqi civilians, has saved countless lives over the long run.
thereligionofpeace.com makes the point:

Iraqi civilians killed (all deliberately) in 2006 by the Iraqi resistance: 16,791.
Iraqi civilians killed (all accidentally) in 2006 by Americans: 225.

I will add this note as a former military person. The majority of people in 2005 with whom I spoke too, believed (under their breath as we were not really allowed to express "opinions" at that time) we should have been focusing on Afghanistan and Al Quaeda rather than Iraq. But, ciscop's correct in that the majority of those in the military do what we're told to do.

One final point I would like to make. Ask yourself this. If you were an Iraqi civilian, would you rather live in an Iraq under Saddam Hussein and his dictatorship or would you rather be living in Iraq today as a democracy? I certainly know which I would prefer...
Thanks again Scepcop for removing the video.
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