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FBI says Ted Olson lied about calls from his wife on 9/11

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FBI says Ted Olson lied about calls from his wife on 9/11

Postby Scepcop » 20 Mar 2010, 03:18

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... a&aid=8514

Late in the day on 9/11, CNN put out a story that began: “Barbara Olson, a conservative commentator and attorney, alerted her husband, Solicitor General Ted Olson, that the plane she was on was being hijacked Tuesday morning, Ted Olson told CNN.” According to this story, Olson reported that his wife had “called him twice on a cell phone from American Airlines Flight 77,” saying that “all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers. The only weapons she mentioned were knives and cardboard cutters.”2

Ted Olson’s report was very important. It provided the only evidence that American 77, which was said to have struck the Pentagon, had still been aloft after it had disappeared from FAA radar around 9:00 AM (there had been reports, after this disappearance, that an airliner had crashed on the Ohio-Kentucky border). Also, Barbara Olson had been a very well-known commentator on CNN. The report that she died in a plane that had been hijacked by Arab Muslims was an important factor in getting the nation’s support for the Bush administration’s “war on terror.” Ted Olson’s report was important in still another way, being the sole source of the widely accepted idea that the hijackers had box cutters.3

However, although Ted Olson’s report of phone calls from his wife has been a central pillar of the official account of 9/11, this report has been completely undermined.

Olson’s Self-Contradictions

Olson began this process of undermining by means of self-contradictions. He first told CNN, as we have seen, that his wife had “called him twice on a cell phone.” But he contradicted this claim on September 14, telling Hannity and Colmes that she had reached him by calling the Department of Justice collect. Therefore, she must have been using the “airplane phone,” he surmised, because “she somehow didn’t have access to her credit cards.”4 However, this version of Olson’s story, besides contradicting his first version, was even self-contradictory, because a credit card is needed to activate a passenger-seat phone.

Later that same day, moreover, Olson told Larry King Live that the second call from his wife suddenly went dead because “the signals from cell phones coming from airplanes don’t work that well.”5 After that return to his first version, he finally settled on the second version, saying that his wife had called collect and hence must have used “the phone in the passengers’ seats” because she did not have her purse.6

By finally settling on this story, Olson avoided a technological pitfall. Given the cell phone system employed in 2001, high-altitude cell phone calls from airliners were impossible, or at least virtually so (Olson’s statement that “the signals from cell phones coming from airplanes don’t work that well” was a considerable understatement). The technology to enable cell phone calls from high-altitude airline flights was not created until 2004.7

However, Olson’s second story, besides being self-contradictory, was contradicted by American Airlines.

American Airlines Contradicts Olson’s Second Version

A 9/11 researcher, knowing that AA Flight 77 was a Boeing 757, noticed that AA’s website indicated that its 757s do not have passenger-seat phones. After he wrote to ask if that had been the case on September 11, 2001, an AA customer service representative replied: “That is correct; we do not have phones on our Boeing 757. The passengers on flight 77 used their own personal cellular phones to make out calls during the terrorist attack.”8

In response to this revelation, defenders of the official story might reply that Ted Olson was evidently right the first time: she had used her cell phone. However, besides the fact that this scenario is rendered unlikely by the cell phone technology employed in 2001, it has also been contradicted by the FBI.

Olson’s Story Contradicted by the FBI

The most serious official contradiction of Ted Olson’s story came in 2006 at the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui, the so-called 20th hijacker. The evidence presented to this trial by the FBI included a report on phone calls from all four 9/11 flights. In its report on American Flight 77, the FBI report attributed only one call to Barbara Olson and it was an “unconnected call,” which (of course) lasted “0 seconds.”9 According to the FBI, therefore, Ted Olson did not receive a single call from his wife using either a cell phone or an onboard phone.

Back on 9/11, the FBI itself had interviewed Olson. A report of that interview indicates that Olson told the FBI agents that his wife had called him twice from Flight 77.10 And yet the FBI’s report on calls from Flight 77, presented in 2006, indicated that no such calls occurred.

This was an amazing development: The FBI is part of the Department of Justice, and yet its report undermined the well-publicized claim of the DOJ’s former solicitor general that he had received two calls from his wife on 9/11.

Olson’s Story Also Rejected by Pentagon Historians

Ted Olson’s story has also been quietly rejected by the historians who wrote Pentagon 9/11, a treatment of the Pentagon attack put out by the Department of Defense.11

According to Olson, his wife had said that “all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers.”12 This is an inherently implausible scenario. We are supposed to believe that 60-some people, including the two pilots, were held at bay by three or four men (one or two of the hijackers would have been in the cockpit) with knives and boxcutters. This scenario becomes even more absurd when we realize that the alleged hijackers were all small, unathletic men (the 9/11 Commission pointed out that even “[t]he so-called muscle hijackers actually were not physically imposing, as the majority of them were between 5’5” and 5’7” in height and slender in build”13), and that the pilot, Charles “Chic” Burlingame, was a weightlifter and a boxer, who was described as “really tough” by one of his erstwhile opponents.14 Also, the idea that Burlingame would have turned over the plane to hijackers was rejected by his brother, who said: “I don't know what happened in that cockpit, but I'm sure that they would have had to incapacitate him or kill him because he would have done anything to prevent the kind of tragedy that befell that airplane.”15

The Pentagon historians, in any case, did not accept the Olson story, according to which Burlingame and his co-pilot did give up their plane and were in the back with the passengers and other crew members. They instead wrote that “the attackers either incapacitated or murdered the two pilots.”16

Conclusion

This rejection of Ted Olson’s story by American Airlines, the Pentagon, and especially the FBI is a development of utmost importance. Without the alleged calls from Barbara Olson, there is no evidence that Flight 77 returned to Washington. Also, if Ted Olson’s claim was false, then there are only two possibilities: Either he lied or he was duped by someone using voice-morphing technology to pretend to be his wife.17 In either case, the official story about the calls from Barbara Olson was based on deception. And if that part of the official account of 9/11 was based on deception, should we not suspect that other parts were as well?

The fact that Ted Olson’s report has been contradicted by other defenders of the official story about 9/11 provides grounds for demanding a new investigation of 9/11. This internal contradiction is, moreover, only one of 25 such contradictions discussed in my most recent book, 9/11 Contradictions: An Open Letter to Congress and the Press.

NOTES

1 This essay is based on Chapter 8 (“Did Ted Olson Receive Calls from Barbara Olson?”) of David Ray Griffin, 9/11 Contradictions: An Open Letter to Congress and the Press (Northampton: Olive Branch, 2008).

2 Tim O’Brien, “Wife of Solicitor General Alerted Him of Hijacking from Plane,” CNN, September 11, 2001 (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/pentagon.olson).

3 This was pointed out in The 9/11 Commission Report, 8.

4 Hannity & Colmes, Fox News, September 14, 2001 (http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/200 ... 91401.html).

5 “America’s New War: Recovering from Tragedy,” Larry King Live, CNN, September 14, 2001 (http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/14/lkl.00.html).

6 In his “Barbara K. Olson Memorial Lecture,” delivered November 16, 2001
(http://www.fed-soc.org/resources/id.63/default.asp),
Olson said that she “somehow managed . . . to use a telephone in the airplane to call.” He laid out this version of his story more fully in an interview reported in Toby Harnden, “She Asked Me How to Stop the Plane,” Daily Telegraph, March 5, 2002 (http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/200 ... 30502.html).

7 I discussed the technical difficulties of making cell phone calls from airliners in 2001 in Debunking 9/11 Debunking: An Answer to Popular Mechanics and Other Defenders of the Official Conspiracy Theory (Northampton: Olive Branch, 2007), 87-88, 292-97.

8 See the submission of 17 February 2006 by “the Paradroid” on the Politik Forum (http://forum.politik.de/forum/archive/i ... -p-24.html). It is quoted in David Ray Griffin, 9/11 Contradictions: An Open Letter to Congress and the Press (Northampton: Olive Branch, 2008), 75.

9 United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui, Exhibit Number P200054 (http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecas ... 00054.html). These documents can be more easily viewed in “Detailed Account of Phone Calls from September 11th Flights”
(http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evid ... etail.html).

10 FBI, “Interview with Theodore Olsen [sic],” “9/11 Commission, FBI Source Documents, Chronological, September 11,” 2001Intelfiles.com, March 14, 2008,
(http://intelfiles.egoplex.com:80/2008/0 ... ments.html).

11 Alfred Goldberg et al., Pentagon 9/11 (Washington DC: Office of the Secretary of Defense, 2007).

12 O’Brien, “Wife of Solicitor General Alerted Him of Hijacking from Plane.”

13 9/11 Commission Staff Statement 16
(http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_sta ... ent_16.pdf).

14 Shoestring, “The Flight 77 Murder Mystery: Who Really Killed Charles Burlingame?” Shoestring911, February 2, 2008 (http://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2008/ ... eally.html).

15 “In Memoriam: Charles ‘Chic’ Burlingame, 1949-2001,” USS Saratoga Museum foundation (available at http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/plane ... bered.html).

16 Alfred Goldberg et al., Pentagon 9/11 (Washington DC: Office of the Secretary of Defense, 2007), 12.

17 Of these two possibilities, the idea that Ted Olson was duped should be seriously entertained only if there are records proving that the Department of Justice received two collect calls, ostensibly from Barbara Olson, that morning. Evidently no such records have been produced.


This article is based on Chapter 8 of Dr. Griffin's new book, "9/11 Contradictions: An Open Letter to Congress and the Press," (Northampton: Olive Branch, 2008).

This book reframes the central events of 9/11 as a series of 25 internal contradictions. The only way that its readers will be able to continue to accept the official story is to accept mutually contradictory accounts.

"9/11 Contradictions" may have the best chance of any of DRG's books (or indeed any book) of opening up a new investigation into 9/11.
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Re: FBI says Ted Olson lied about calls from his wife on 9/11

Postby Scepcop » 20 Mar 2010, 03:22

Interesting drama skit about this chilling breaking news from the FBI.

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Re: FBI says Ted Olson lied about calls from his wife on 9/11

Postby Nostradamus » 20 Mar 2010, 03:28

A 9/11 researcher, knowing that AA Flight 77 was a Boeing 757, noticed that AA’s website indicated that its 757s do not have passenger-seat phones.


This is simply wrong. The person that makes this claim has been shown to have done a sloppy job in their research. The person who has gone nameless can continue to go nameless. It is well known that the flight did have phones. The ding-a-ling forgot to ask if the phones were onboard that flight and other flights in 2001.

There are lots of other mistakes with this account. These have been shown to be nonsense so many times that it is hardly worth discussing these lies.

Regardless of these nonsense claims it makes no difference. The plane hit the Pentagon and crew and passender bodies were found in the Pentagon.

To sum it up. This claim is lie and pointless.
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Re: FBI says Ted Olson lied about calls from his wife on 9/11

Postby ProfWag » 20 Mar 2010, 03:31

I was just getting ready to type that I applaud this post as being written rather than wanting us to suffer though some youtube thing, and then you had to go and blow it.
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Re: FBI says Ted Olson lied about calls from his wife on 9/11

Postby ProfWag » 20 Mar 2010, 03:36

Nostradamus wrote:. The person who has gone nameless can continue to go nameless. It is well known that the flight did have phones. The ding-a-ling forgot to ask if the phones were onboard that flight and other flights in 2001.

I believe that this nameless person is none other than the infamous David Griffin. I would put Dr. in fron of his name, but his PhD is in theology and nothing that has to do with what he's trying to sell.
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Re: FBI says Ted Olson lied about calls from his wife on 9/11

Postby Nostradamus » 20 Mar 2010, 03:40

That's the dupes name. I was going to leave it nameless since Griffen probably doesn't want his name associated with a completely bungled phone call in which the ding-a-ling made a whopping error. That's just a typical example of the horrendously bad so-called research the 9/11 folks have done. Had Griffen asked why there no phones in the plane, then he would have learned that the phones were removed due to lack of profits and the removal of planes from that model happened after 2001.
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Re: FBI says Ted Olson lied about calls from his wife on 9/11

Postby Nostradamus » 20 Mar 2010, 03:44

We are supposed to believe that 60-some people, including the two pilots, were held at bay by three or four men (one or two of the hijackers would have been in the cockpit) with knives and boxcutters. This scenario becomes even more absurd when we realize that the alleged hijackers were all small, unathletic men (the 9/11 Commission pointed out that even “[t]he so-called muscle hijackers actually were not physically imposing, as the majority of them were between 5’5” and 5’7” in height and slender in build”13), and that the pilot, Charles “Chic” Burlingame, was a weightlifter and a boxer, who was described as “really tough” by one of his erstwhile opponents.


This claim is so appalling stupid that it made me angry the last time it was posted in these fora. People don't expect to be murdered when hijacked in the US. This claim is simply a demagogic claim made to preach to the choir. Anyone with half a brain realizes how insensitive and vulgar this statement truly is.
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Re: FBI says Ted Olson lied about calls from his wife on 9/11

Postby Nostradamus » 20 Mar 2010, 03:48

Given the cell phone system employed in 2001, high-altitude cell phone calls from airliners were impossible, or at least virtually so


This is a stupid lie told by twoofers. In 2001 the phones were likely to be analog and not digital and therefore MORE likely to work. The number of calls made from planes is large. The problem with cell phones from planes is not an FAA rule, but an FCC rule.
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Re: FBI says Ted Olson lied about calls from his wife on 9/11

Postby Nostradamus » 20 Mar 2010, 03:51

This is from one of my posts in this very SCEPCOP forum in which I pointed out that Griffen already admitted he was wrong in claiming no phones on the plane:

Here is Griffin admitting his idiotic notion was wrong and there were phones:
http://911blogger.com/node/8408#comment-139890

[url]The conclusion that Barbara Olson could not have made a call using an onboard phone seemed further confirmed by a page on the AA website that says, “Worldwide satellite communications are available on American Airlines' Boeing 777 and Boeing 767,” with no mention of AA’s Boeing 757.

My mistake, like that of Henshall and Rowland before me, was to assume that the AA spokesperson and this website were talking about AA 757s as they had always been, not simply about 757s at the time of the query, in 2004.[/url]

It seems that Griffin does his research poorly or more likely not at all.


This thread should be merged with the already existing thread.
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Re: FBI says Ted Olson lied about calls from his wife on 9/11

Postby ProfWag » 20 Mar 2010, 04:02

Nostradamus wrote:
We are supposed to believe that 60-some people, including the two pilots, were held at bay by three or four men (one or two of the hijackers would have been in the cockpit) with knives and boxcutters. This scenario becomes even more absurd when we realize that the alleged hijackers were all small, unathletic men (the 9/11 Commission pointed out that even “[t]he so-called muscle hijackers actually were not physically imposing, as the majority of them were between 5’5” and 5’7” in height and slender in build”13), and that the pilot, Charles “Chic” Burlingame, was a weightlifter and a boxer, who was described as “really tough” by one of his erstwhile opponents.


This claim is so appalling stupid that it made me angry the last time it was posted in these fora. People don't expect to be murdered when hijacked in the US. This claim is simply a demagogic claim made to preach to the choir. Anyone with half a brain realizes how insensitive and vulgar this statement truly is.

I hear ya'. Let's say I stand 5'2 and weight 130. Let's say Shaquelle O'Neal is with his kid. I've got a boxcutter. I grab the kid and tell Shaq to do what I say or the kid gets cut. Who is going to win that fight?
Ridiculous claim, just like most everything else I've seen come from CTers.
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Re: FBI says Ted Olson lied about calls from his wife on 9/11

Postby Scepcop » 20 Mar 2010, 09:00

Nostradamus wrote:This is from one of my posts in this very SCEPCOP forum in which I pointed out that Griffen already admitted he was wrong in claiming no phones on the plane:

Here is Griffin admitting his idiotic notion was wrong and there were phones:
http://911blogger.com/node/8408#comment-139890

[url]The conclusion that Barbara Olson could not have made a call using an onboard phone seemed further confirmed by a page on the AA website that says, “Worldwide satellite communications are available on American Airlines' Boeing 777 and Boeing 767,” with no mention of AA’s Boeing 757.

My mistake, like that of Henshall and Rowland before me, was to assume that the AA spokesperson and this website were talking about AA 757s as they had always been, not simply about 757s at the time of the query, in 2004.[/url]

It seems that Griffin does his research poorly or more likely not at all.


This thread should be merged with the already existing thread.


You didn't read the rest of your article:

Reasons for Still Doubting the Olson Calls

Does this evidence, that Flight 77 did have seat-back phones, mean that we must infer that Barbara Olson’s alleged call to Ted Olson really occurred? Of course not. All the reasons that had previously been given for doubting it still hold.

One problem with the story about this call is that Barbara Olson was the only person on the plane who allegedly used a seat-back phone to call someone. There were, in fact, only two people altogether from this flight who allegedly made any calls, the other one being flight attendant Renee May, who supposedly used a cell phone to call her parents. Moreover, Barbara Olson reported, according to her husband, that all the passengers and crew members had been herded to the back of the plane. Yet we are supposed to believe that none of the other people, seeing Barbara Olson make two phone calls, grabbed one of the other seat-back phones to make their own calls. We are also supposed to believe that no one else, while seeing Renee May use her cell phone, decided to use their own cell phones to call someone. This scenario is extremely implausible.

Another problem with Ted Olson’s story is that he has repeatedly changed his claim about the means his wife used to make the calls. Three days after 9/11, Olson suggested on one TV show that the call was made on a seat-back phone. Then, on another show that same day, he suggested that his wife had used her cell phone. Six months later, he returned to his first story, saying: “She wasn't using her cellphone, she was using the phone in the passengers' seats. . . . [S]he was calling collect.” (7) One would think that the details of this call---his final conversation with his wife before she died---would have been burned so indelibly into his memory that he would not have said different things at different times.

There is, however, an even more serious problem, which was stated in an essay by Rowland Morgan in 2004: “Ted Olson could give his adherents closure, and shut his critics up,” Morgan pointed out, “by simply producing the Department of Justice’s telephone accounts, showing a couple of hefty reverse-charges entries charged from Flight 77’s Airfone number at around about 9:20 AM on 11th September, 2001.” (8)

This passage, incidentally, evidently played a role in another error I made, this one entirely my own doing. My text contains this statement: “He [Ted Olson] later produced Department of Justice telephone accounts purportedly showing that there were two reverse-charge calls from Flight 77’s Airfone number about 9:20 a.m. on September 11, 2001.” (9) When I came across this statement as I was re-reading my account, I was puzzled by the fact that it had no reference. Why had I not given the source for such an important claim? In looking for this source, I discovered the just-quoted statement from Morgan’s essay. I am completely baffled about how this error occurred. Perhaps during my note-taking process, I somehow transformed Morgan’s hypothetical scenario into an actual fact. (This transformation could not, of course, be explained as either deliberate distortion or wishful reading on my part, because the DOJ records, if they had actually been produced, would have significantly strengthened the case for the truth of Ted Olson’s claim about the calls.) But whatever the explanation, this error, like the more important one discussed earlier, will be corrected in the second printing of Debunking 9/11 Debunking.

My error, however, serves to highlight the problem, which is: If Barbara Olson’s calls were made to the DOJ (Department of Justice), as Ted Olson claims, why has neither he nor anyone else produced records showing the occurrence of those calls? The conclusion that no such records exist is reinforced, Morgan and Henshall have pointed out, (10) by the fact that, according to The 9/11 Commission Report, the FBI’s report on the issue, “American Airlines Airphone [sic] Usage,” makes no mention of DOJ records. It merely refers to four “connected calls to unknown numbers.” The 9/11 Commission commented: “The records available for the phone calls from American 77 do not allow for a determination of which of [these four calls] represent the two between Barbara and Ted Olson, although the FBI and DOJ believe that all four represent communications between Barbara Olson and her husband’s office.” (11) The serious problem with this comment is not that according to Ted Olson, he received only two calls from his wife, not four. The serious problem is that, if the DOJ had received any of these calls, the FBI, which is part of the DOJ, could have easily produced the records. The fact that they did not implies that these calls were not received.

Having mentioned three problems with Ted Olson’s story, I will conclude with a fourth. According to CNN, which first reported his statements, Olson said that his wife had reported that “all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane” by hijackers armed with “knives and cardboard cutters.” (12) The pilot, Charles “Chic” Burlingame, was a big, athletic man, of whom his brother said: "I don't know what happened in that cockpit, but I'm sure that they would have had to incapacitate him or kill him because he would have done anything to prevent the kind of tragedy that befell that airplane." (13) According to the Olson story, however, they did not kill him but took him, along with his co-pilot and the rest of the flight personnel, as well as all the passengers, to the back of the plane. Is it plausible that these 60-some people, led by Chic Burlingame, would not have easily overpowered three or four rather small hijackers (14) ---Hani Hanjour and perhaps one other hijacker would have been in the cockpit---armed with knives and box-cutters? If this does not qualify as an absurd conspiracy theory, what would?

For all these reasons, the evidence that AA 77 did have seat-back phones does little to reinstate the credibility of the claim that Ted Olson actually received calls from his wife on that flight. (15)

Conclusion

In this brief essay, I have tried to exemplify what I have always said people should do when they find that they have made errors, especially about issues of great importance: Correct them quickly, forthrightly, and publicly. I assume that now NIST, Popular Mechanics, and the 9/11 Commission will retract the dozens of errors that have been pointed out in their reports.
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Re: FBI says Ted Olson lied about calls from his wife on 9/11

Postby Nostradamus » 20 Mar 2010, 09:12

The point is simply that in your original post you listed an item that the referred to 9/11 researcher was wrong about. It is well known he was wrong. He admitted he was wrong.

None of this telephone chicanery by the twoofers matters since Olson and the others smashed into the Pentagon. This sort of argument is a minor distraction.

Furthermore, this has already been discussed in another thread right here in the SCEPCOP forums.
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Re: FBI says Ted Olson lied about calls from his wife on 9/11

Postby Nostradamus » 20 Mar 2010, 09:13

Despite Griffen's efforts to wiggle out of being wrong he is still very much wrong. It also is an illustration of the poor quality research done by this so-called 9/11 researcher.
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Re: FBI says Ted Olson lied about calls from his wife on 9/11

Postby Scepcop » 24 Mar 2010, 04:23

You skeptics don't understand something. You are wrong either way because:

Though the American Airlines Boeing 757 is fitted with individual telephones at each seat position, they are not of the variety where you can simply pick up the handset and ask for an operator. On many aircraft you can talk from one seat to another in the aircraft free of charge, but if you wish to access the outside world you must first swipe your credit card through the telephone. By Ted Olson’s own admission, Barbara did not have a credit card with her.

It gets worse. On American Airlines there is a telephone "setup" charge of US$2.50 which can only be paid by credit card, then a US$2.50 (sometimes US$5.00) charge per minute of speech thereafter. The setup charge is the crucial element. Without paying it in advance by swiping your credit card you cannot access the external telephone network. Under these circumstances the passengers’ seat phone on a Boeing 757 is a much use as a plastic toy.

Perhaps Ted Olson made a mistake and Barbara managed to borrow a credit card from a fellow passenger? Not a chance. If Barbara had done so, once swiped through the phone, the credit card would have enabled her to call whoever she wanted to for as long as she liked, negating any requirement to call collect.
Sadly perhaps, the Olson telephone call claim is proved untrue. Any American official wishing to challenge this has only to subpoena the telephone company and Justice Department records. There will be no charge originating from American Airlines 77 to the US Solicitor General.

Even without this hard proof, the chances of meaningfully using a seat-telephone on Flight 77 were nil. We know from the intermittent glimpses of the aircraft the air traffic controllers had on the radar scopes, that Flight 77 was travelling at extreme speed at very low level, pulling high “G’ turns in the process.
Under these circumstances it would be difficult even reaching a phone, much less using it. Finally, the phones on the Boeing 757 rely on either ground cell phone towers or satellite bounce in order to maintain a stable connection. At very low altitude and extreme speed, the violent changes in aircraft attitude would render the normal telephone links completely unusable.


There is a long discussion about this in the above top secret forum. Come here to participate:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread336197/pg1

I'd love to see you skeptics post your warped and subjective opinions that defend authority with unquestioning faith there.
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Re: FBI says Ted Olson lied about calls from his wife on 9/11

Postby Nostradamus » 24 Mar 2010, 04:49

Regardless of how many times lies are posted it doesn't matter. The plane still crashed and the bodies of the crew and passengers were incinerated in a fiery crash. This is the sort of nonsense that above top secret and the rest of twoofers can get hung up on.

We've seen the warped and demented comments of twoofers posted and debunked so many times.
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