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How to walk through a door

Discussions about Metaphysics, Quantum Physics, the Holographic Universe and the Nature of Reality.

Re: How to walk through a door

Postby craig weiler » 04 Nov 2011, 01:02

Your links essentially confirmed what I said, although in more technical terms. You can measure position or velocity, but not both, so you can't measure this. The Compton wavelength is not describing a true wave. Otherwise they would simply call it a wave.
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Re: How to walk through a door

Postby Nostradamus » 04 Nov 2011, 03:57

craig weiler wrote:Your links essentially confirmed what I said, although in more technical terms. You can measure position or velocity, but not both, so you can't measure this. The Compton wavelength is not describing a true wave. Otherwise they would simply call it a wave.


Electron diffraction refers to the wave nature of electrons. However, from a technical or practical point of view, it may be regarded as a technique used to study matter by firing electrons at a sample and observing the resulting interference pattern. This phenomenon is commonly known as the wave-particle duality, which states that the behavior of a particle of matter (in this case the incident electron) can be described by a wave. For this reason, an electron can be regarded as a wave much like sound or water waves.


Sorry you are confused on this issue. I provided a s link to show that matter can be described as a wave and then a means of determining the wavelength.
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Re: How to walk through a door

Postby craig weiler » 04 Nov 2011, 07:29

Uh, no, I'm not confused. An electron is either a particle or it is in superposition, i.e. wave/function. A wave function has wavelike properties, but as soon as you measure it, it becomes a particle. It is a probability cloud in superposition. You can regard it as a wave because it displays an interference pattern, but you can only see that pattern once it becomes a particle. it's not possible to observe the wave-like part of the dual nature of electrons. It's a weird feature of the observer effect. What you're quoting has been oversimplified.
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Re: How to walk through a door

Postby Nostradamus » 05 Nov 2011, 03:29

It is what you observe it to be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_superposition
Quantum superposition is a fundamental principle of quantum mechanics. It holds that a physical system (say, an electron) exists in all its particular, theoretically possible states (or, configuration of its properties) simultaneously; but, when measured, it gives a result corresponding to only one of the possible configurations[
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Re: How to walk through a door

Postby craig weiler » 06 Nov 2011, 00:09

Yes. We're in agreement now. Superposition is essentially a probability cloud. It's not something that can be measured. This is what I was nitpicking about. It has wave like properties and it can be regarded as a wave, but technically, that's not what it is exactly. I love this stuff.
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Re: How to walk through a door

Postby Nostradamus » 07 Nov 2011, 09:47

It does not matter if superposition can be measured. What matters is that an object as large as a person cannot experience the QM effects discussed in the OP. That's the point.
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Re: How to walk through a door

Postby Arouet » 07 Nov 2011, 10:22

Nostradamus wrote:It does not matter if superposition can be measured. What matters is that an object as large as a person cannot experience the QM effects discussed in the OP. That's the point.


I thought technically that's not true, it's just really really really really really really (add a lot more reallys) unlikely!
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Re: How to walk through a door

Postby Jayhawker30 » 07 Nov 2011, 12:06

Could a bullet experience those effects?
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Re: How to walk through a door

Postby craig weiler » 07 Nov 2011, 12:16

A bullet has been observed, so it is going to obey conventional physics.

For someone to pass through a wall or a door or whatever, they have to have a way to use consciousness to put every single subatomic particle in their body in superposition and then they can appear on the other side instantaneously by observing themselves on the other side.. This works because anything in superposition is already everywhere at once.

Can consciousness do that? I don't know and neither does anyone else. I have never heard of it being done and even if I did I wouldn't automatically assume it was true.

It's all speculation.
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Re: How to walk through a door

Postby really? » 07 Nov 2011, 21:37

craig weiler wrote:A bullet has been observed, so it is going to obey conventional physics.

For someone to pass through a wall or a door or whatever, they have to have a way to use consciousness to put every single subatomic particle in their body in superposition and then they can appear on the other side instantaneously by observing themselves on the other side.. This works because anything in superposition is already everywhere at once.

Can consciousness do that? I don't know and neither does anyone else. I have never heard of it being done and even if I did I wouldn't automatically assume it was true.

It's all speculation.


There won't be an observation because once you're in a state of superposition you no longer have retinas and without retinas there's nothing to stop light so you can't see hence a self observation becomes impossible .

Not instantaneously everywhere at once. That's impossible. The universe is thought to be between 93 and 156 billion light years in diameter. Your body now in a state of superpostion all the particles that made up you are now energy which means this energy can only travel at the speed of light.
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Re: How to walk through a door

Postby craig weiler » 07 Nov 2011, 22:43

There won't be an observation because once you're in a state of superposition you no longer have retinas and without retinas there's nothing to stop light so you can't see hence a self observation becomes impossible .


This gets a little tricky to explain because to understand where I'm going you have to have some understanding of the discussions in quantum physics about consciousness. I'll try.

The observation effect, a very well known experiment in quantum physics, is believed by many physicists to demonstrate that consciousness plays a role in physics. The reason for this is that subatomic particles are in superposition until they are observed (a.k.a. measured.) It's been demonstrated conclusively that it is not the measuring devices that are causing this. Nothing within known physics is capable of creating the observation effect because everything is subject to it. The only thing outside of known physics that anyone is aware of is consciousness.

Eyes are not required as they are purely intermediary. It is a signal processing system only. Nothing happens until those signals are made into something inside our minds.

Not instantaneously everywhere at once. That's impossible. The universe is thought to be between 93 and 156 billion light years in diameter. Your body now in a state of superpostion all the particles that made up you are now energy which means this energy can only travel at the speed of light.


Yes, everywhere at once. That's what superposition is. I suggest you read up on this. Quantum physics is amazing stuff. This will also introduce you to entanglement. None of this violates the speed of light because nothing is traveling. It all happens instantaneously.
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Re: How to walk through a door

Postby really? » 07 Nov 2011, 23:00

craig weiler wrote:
There won't be an observation because once you're in a state of superposition you no longer have retinas and without retinas there's nothing to stop light so you can't see hence a self observation becomes impossible .


This gets a little tricky to explain because to understand where I'm going you have to have some understanding of the discussions in quantum physics about consciousness. I'll try.

The observation effect, a very well known experiment in quantum physics, is believed by many physicists to demonstrate that consciousness plays a role in physics. The reason for this is that subatomic particles are in superposition until they are observed (a.k.a. measured.) It's been demonstrated conclusively that it is not the measuring devices that are causing this. Nothing within known physics is capable of creating the observation effect because everything is subject to it. The only thing outside of known physics that anyone is aware of is consciousness.

Eyes are not required as they are purely intermediary. It is a signal processing system only. Nothing happens until those signals are made into something inside our minds.

Not instantaneously everywhere at once. That's impossible. The universe is thought to be between 93 and 156 billion light years in diameter. Your body now in a state of superpostion all the particles that made up you are now energy which means this energy can only travel at the speed of light.


Yes, everywhere at once. That's what superposition is. I suggest you read up on this. Quantum physics is amazing stuff. This will also introduce you to entanglement. None of this violates the speed of light because nothing is traveling. It all happens instantaneously.


Show us where it's stated superposition means everywhere spread across the entire universe ?
I understand the supposed connection between QM and consciousness. And I also understand what entanglement means.
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Re: How to walk through a door

Postby Nostradamus » 09 Nov 2011, 12:24

Objects do not go into and out of superposition. Superposition is demonstrated by observing wave effects from large particles. Examples are an atom or a collection of atoms seen to demonstrate wave behavior.

An electron is either a particle or it is in superposition, i.e. wave/function. A wave function has wavelike properties, but as soon as you measure it, it becomes a particle.

Wrong. An electron is a particle. Light comes in particles. Everything is particles. These particles can also exhibit other states. These states are in superposition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_diffraction#Wavelength_of_electrons
Read here how to determine the wavelength of the electron.

The wavelength of the electron allows us to see small objects, smaller than the wavelengths allowed by light microscopes.
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Re: How to walk through a door

Postby Nostradamus » 09 Nov 2011, 12:32

Arouet wrote:
Nostradamus wrote:It does not matter if superposition can be measured. What matters is that an object as large as a person cannot experience the QM effects discussed in the OP. That's the point.


I thought technically that's not true, it's just really really really really really really (add a lot more reallys) unlikely!


It's not just unlikely, but not possible because the wavelength of a macroscopic object such as a person is so short than the issues such as tunneling are not possible. A person has a mass at least 10^32 greater than an electron making the wavelength of a person 1/(10^32) times the wavelength of an electron's wavelength.
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Re: How to walk through a door

Postby cecil1 » 18 Apr 2012, 09:05

it's not a wave or a particle, it's coined a wavicle.

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