Craig Browning wrote:Just in scanning your reply Twain I can see that you know little to nothing about genuine Metaphysical belief such as we have within the Martial Arts, Shamanic and even Christian Science/Science of Mind worlds.
DO you even remember who you are talking to, Craig. I am a semanticist, like Soktates. Define the terms or you are just masturbating.
Genuine metaphysics has nothing to do with the question I was answering. MY 1st step in dealing with any question is to define the terms in reference to real, multiply observed phenomena, which is what I was trying to do here.
Basically, the original post was not logical, but was simply a rhetorical ploy which a smug catholic boy attempted to use to discomfit Kurt Vonnegut, who responded by saying, “Then why are we arguing?” and later successfully stimulating the boy to involuntarily cross himself in response to the catholic's childhood conditioning.
I did not attempt to define the word free, much less will. I was simply describing the phenomena I believe underlay the evolution of the factors that gave rise to the concept, but as I said to a Christian friend when such talk made here doubt her belief in God to her momentary discomfort, “We are evolved to see. Does that mean light doesn't exist?”
I know what it is to be in Zen time from personal experience. I know about Shamanism, because I am a Shaman, which I haven't mentioned here, partially because I had no explanation that remotely satisfied me, and partially because I do not to choose to argue about my spiritual state, which is an even fuzzier subject than economics. I was raised by a “Christian Scientist”, and do not go to doctors except in great reluctance, because I know from personal experience that all my sicknesses are psychosomatic in cause. I will say that if I belong to any school of Shamanism known to the world, my guru would be considered to be the late great Robt. Anton Wilson.
Craig Browning wrote:Fact is the mind can be disciplined (as an act of personal free will) to not fear the hot stove or for that matter, lava flows (that aspect of fire walking the skeptics have yet to explain away; how something hot enough to set a dense wood log ablaze in a matter of seconds doesn't harm the feet of the "Lava Dancers")
The fact is, when I walked on the thin non-conducting ash layer covering the coals, I simply kept in mind that ash is a damned poor conductor of heat. I was very embarrassed when my fellow Christians were taking it seriously, and felt I was participating in a fraud.
Craig Browning wrote: even what some call Free-doom.
Now that comes close to describing what I experience, the self fulfillment of “Doom” or “Moira” or “fate”.
The problem I have occurs repeatedly, I develop a model of the universe that allows choice and some facts don't fit. I develop a model that doesn't allow choice and I find it requires us to act as if we had choice anyway, as Oidipos did, and as St Paul and John Calvin says all humans do with a free will that, like Vonnegut's determinism , gave one the free will only to repent your actions.
Right now, I see two possibilities. Either the future doesn't exist yet, in which there is some wriggle room and “quantum uncertainty” in our predetermined paths, allowing a degree of choice, or the future already exists, in which case, the scope is either severely limited, or becomes the exclusive property of some programmer not yet identified, or we are all doomed to act out what already is.
I accept you superior knowledge in these fields. I hope you will accept I have some knowledge of them as well, Craig. I left it to you to bring up those aspects of the argument
My rough estimate is that, 90% of the behavior of 90% of humans is roboticly preprogrammed 90% of the time. I would be very surprised if the quantity of robotic reprogramming is that low, and I suspect that most of the remaining behavior is mostly the re-programming which our meat computers, or the fields of our psyches do, and that even this reprogramming is foredoomed within severe constraints.
But, from personal experience, I “believe” that “everything that happens to us is our fault, but that is not our fault” and that, rather we have choice or not, we have to pretend we do, for psychic health if nothing else. These are mysteries
There are also opinions. I do not regard any of my shamanic knowledge as being objectively verifiable.
And just because we are evolved to see doesn't men we understand light.
PS. An account of some of my early experiences of "foredooming" are here. Catsmeat Witnessess: My precogs, by Twain o Shakespeare
by Twain Shakespeare » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:03 pm
I am working on an account of my "shamanism"